LuigiVampa

It was a useful thread but I honestly think we are beating a dead horse at this point.

Matt D, on the other hand, should probably still be paying attention. Also, if you can start another thread about how grass is not a racing service I would be happy to add to that one.

jdistefa

I resemble that remark.

hf1

I'd like one last confirmation from the experienced PCA club racers here, before I wrap this up. Am I safe to conclude that if I play by Scenario a (i.e. if I'm ahead at turn-in and I go for the apex and deny racing room to the car next to me) and there is contact, then I would NOT be found to be at fault and would not get a 13, while the other car likely would? In other words, has anyone seen that a 13 has been given to someone going for the apex as per Scenario a, with the justification that they should have followed Scenario b ("given racing room")? It's going to be hard to re-program myself into a Scenario a) "chopper" but I'll give it a fair try. When in Rome, do what Romans do.

My reasoning is that if I have been on the receiving end of two 13s because I've followed Scenario b instead of Scenario a, then I should just follow Scenario a at all times: When I'm ahead at turn-in, I go ("chop") for the apex, and when I am not, I back out and line up behind.

It doesn't matter that the rules are conflicting if in reality the stewards consistently enforce Scenario a at the expense of Scenario b. I just need a confirmation that this is, in fact, consistently the case. If this is not the case and they often invoke Scenario b ("leave room") to a follower of a Scenario a ("chop"), then I'm afraid the rules must be adjusted to pick one scenario and stick with it at all times.

Thx.

cosm3os

I'll stay out of commenting on a given sanctioning body's specific rules, as I race and officiate with a different organization. But I have some general advice for any novice racer: How about you just keep your nose clean for a season or two?

hf1

Thanks, and yes, that's a given. Still wouldn't hurt to know which rules are being enforced and what behavior is being expected and encouraged in each particular neck of the woods. I'm a rookie for PCA club racing but I've been racing and have "kept my nose clean" for ten years elsewhere.

Gary R.

My friend, I think you KNOW which rules are being enforced after two whacks of the ruler, no?

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in...

hf1

Gary R.

As I explained earlier, unless I know (very well) the person i'm passing entering a corner I take the safe move no matter what the rules say. I leave a lane if i'm the outside guy, I back out if i'm the inside guy and i'm not going to have overlap before turn in. But that's just me, I have been chopped and pinched many times... but my only rubbing was my 1st incident 10 years ago, after that all my damage was self inflicted.

jdistefa

hf1

Gary R.

It's not dead Matt..

Gary R.

Lol... I suggest you continue doing it whatever way you like!

Damn, I was hoping for a new page...

Fumes

omg really man? one. more. time....

if you are attempting a pass, first and foremost, it's your responsibility to get it done safely. Ok? That's the deal. If you don't like that aspect, don't race PCA because the 13 rulings are subjective and greenshirts can catch you out - so be damn careful not to trade paint. that's the whole idea.

Two, If you are even or slightly ahead at turn in, congrats, you're 1/3 done w your epic move! Now you both need to turn in and SHARE the corner. you are not "denying the car next to you racing room" by turning in to the apex when you are even because they are occupying their piece of the track next to you....you can simply coexist...peacefully and happily.

If you fail to shed speed into the brake zone because you are off line and he/she cannot turn in without contact and must drive off, that's denying racing room aka "running him her off the road" haha on entry.
If you squeeze a car off mid corner instead of leaving him or her some space on the track, that's denying racing room.
If you open the wheel early on exit and run him or her off the road - that's denying racing room.

if you didn't turn for the apex, what you call denying racing room, you'd simply go straight and crash into them when they turned in.

Turning in to the apex when you are alongside another car is not a chop.....a chop is passing someone then moving over very quickly immediately in front of them... sometimes into a brake zone which is a ****ty thing to do.

Frank 993 C4S

To your question about behavior: In PCA Club Racing it is expected that we watch out for each other. In practice, this means that on track you don't take unnecessary risk that could result in car to car contact. It also means that you don't always assume that the car that you are overtaking is aware or that others around you always make good decisions. These are the general rules that we PCA Club Racers live by.

If someone has to refer to the rule book to justify an overly aggressive move that went bad because they didn't leave themselves an exit, they are missing the basic spirit of Club Racing. Can you win races with that attitude in a competitive, equally matched class and still have fun - absolutely!

hf1