Streak

So your answer is "figure it out yourself"

That's great.

Still waiting for anyone to explain how the other series rules I posted would kill us all.

Streak

Irrelevant to the discussion of the passing rule as it relates to real life. Just because the OP had an incident doesn't mean that no one is allowed to discuss the passing rule. Why is it so hard for you to understand that the OP is not the only one racing with PCA that might be able to discuss the rules?

I've been racing since 2008 and I've always had issue with the way the PCA rule is written. I started racing simultaneously with NASA and PCA and I was immediately struck by the depth of the NASA passing rule vs PCA. PCA's is not better in it's brevity. PCA's does not prevent contact by using less words. NASA's (nor anyone else's) doesn't promote contact by using more words in their rule.

When rookies are asking for clarification you have a poorly written rule.

What harm would it do to add explanatory language?

The answer is absolutely nothing as is proven by every other race series similar to PCA.

good hands

More clarification would be nice. The other racing clubs seem to spell it out much better.

hf1

...until they don't and decide to use it as a weapon. My first 13 was received at LRP on my first ever PCA race because an experienced racer used this weapon to deny me racing room into Turn 1 with 3/4 overlap. And this was after he came to me in the paddock ahead of the race, introduced himself, and we shook hands on an agreement to always leave each other racing room if ANY overlap was established. He had seen our qualifying times and correctly assumed that we would be racing each other for P3. I appreciated his approach very much. Before the contact we even exchanged positions at least couple of times according to our "handshake" agreement by leaving each other room -- then when I tried to use it into Turn 1, sorry no room this time. Of course, the stewards decided it was my fault since there was no 100% overlap at turn-in, so according to Rule 2 he "had" the corner that according to the same rule he doesn't "own" (!?) and according to Rule 3 "everyone must leave racing room" (!?). In retrospect, I jot it down as simple rookie naivete on my part. I was just "outsmarted".

So you see why this vagueness and "gentlemen just figure it out" thing could become a bit of a problem.

Streak

Here's HRS's rule:

 PASSING: The responsibility for a clean pass rests with both drivers. It is the responsibility of the passer to make a clean pass and responsibility of the passee to maintain a predictable line.

and here's SVRA:

PASSING The responsibility for a clean pass rests with both drivers. Primary responsibility is with the overtaking car. Corner stations will advise slower cars with a blue/yellow flag (passing flag.) Watch your mirrors. If practical, the overtaken driver should clearly indicate to the overtaking driver on which side the pass should be made while maintaining a predictable racing line.

SCCA:

A. Drivers are responsible to avoid physical contact between cars on the race track.
B. Each competitor has a right to racing room, which is generally defined as sufficient space on the marked racing surface that under racing conditions, a driver can maintain control of his car in close quarters.
C. Drivers must respect the right of other competitors to racing room. Abrupt changes in direction that impede or affect the path of another car attempting to overtake or pass may be interpreted as an effort to deprive a fellow competitor of the right to racing room.
D. The overtaking driver is responsible for the decision to pass another car and to accomplish it safely. The overtaken driver is responsible to be aware that he is being passed and not to impede or block the overtaking car. A driver who does not use his rear view mirror or who appears to be blocking another car attempting to pass may be black flagged and/or penalized, as specified in Section 7.


Every other series expressly indicates that both drivers share responsibility in a passing situation. Except PCA.

multi21

I gave 3 areas of where newbies are advised of high rise areas including the racers meeting. How is that on your own? From person experience as a racer and crew chief that sits in on drivers meeting (just to know what they're discussing), a great deal of time and attention is provided to rookies on what is expected in general and what will get them in a lot of trouble specifically. Low percentage passes in corners is one of them and which corners eat cars up

Streak

And after the 2 hour long meeting to explain the passing rule what do they have to refer to? The varied opinions of other racers? A vague rulebook? Sitting in the rookie class at every event?

I know! How about a rule with definitions and explanations they could refer to when in doubt?

Crazy!

Maybe the meeting would be shorter if the rule was actually spelled out.

To add to the benefit of a more clearly explained rule it would aid the stewards and thusly the racers as one steward might have a different idea about the vague rule as another. That never happens does it?

There is no logical argument to not clarify the rule. None.

And I'm still waiting for anyone to tell me how those other rules are bad or how anyone makes it thru a race weekend alive under those rules.

Veloce Raptor

Hunt, write it up and submit during the rules submission period

Streak

I think I will Dave.

FGL28

You are not only Phó King Fast you summed up the essence of common sense rules.
It's PCA wanting to screw with the rules because they have not been screwed with in a while.

With all the type A racers who know more than anybody else, just ask them, get involved things seem to turn into the Red Mist of rules.

My thoughts, Keep it the same.

1990nein

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Streak

Until someone hits you. Or you hit someone. Can't be perfect all the time. Then what? Oh right, you look in the rule book to assign blame for the incident. Hmmmm.

You are clear that this is racing and not a defensive driving exercise right? I mean racing is inherently not defensive and very aggressive in general.

It's not arrogance it's experience.

And if everything is so common sense then why have a rule book at all right? That premise is just foolish. Your "common sense" isn't necessarily the same as someone else's particularly if there is a wide experience gap.

Your insults indicate you don't have a logical rebuttal BTW.

Why would the same rules that other series run harm PCA?

It seems no one has an answer to that question.

And the rules are messed with annually. Sometimes twice a year so there's that.

1990nein

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Streak

OK so now you are putting all the blame on the car being passed?

Or are you essentially saying, like all the other rules I've posted, that there could be responsibility borne by both drivers in an incident?

I thought the passing car was always at fault?

And how do you reconcile your defensive driving position with "**** happens?"

Now you are getting things all confused. I bet a rule with some more clarification would help.

1990nein

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