Fast and Furious Paul Walker killed in CGT
12-01-2013, 10:09 PM
#121
Burning Brakes
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The driver's resume looks more legit than most.
Roger Rodas
http://www.world-challenge.com/drive...=Roger%20Rodas
Roger Rodas
http://www.world-challenge.com/drive...=Roger%20Rodas
12-01-2013, 10:23 PM
#124
Burning Brakes
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RIP to both of them. It sucks to think that these guys more than likely were burned to death in the car. Just a ****ty way to go especially when leaving an event where they were trying to do some good.
12-01-2013, 10:44 PM
#125
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Here is video after the crash! Very Sad!
**REAL VIDEO..Paul Walker died in fatal Car accident. Paul Walker crash scene footage: - YouTube
**REAL VIDEO..Paul Walker died in fatal Car accident. Paul Walker crash scene footage: - YouTube
There, my friends, is the difference between men who will run towards the sound of the gun fire, and those who will run away. That was pathetic...
12-01-2013, 10:49 PM
#126
Prayers to both families and may god speed the driver and his passenger. I would suggest that it is the very height of bad form to speak critically of the deceased, for the simple reason that they cannot defend themselves. While I understand the natural impulse to engage in conjecture about the speed and cause of the accident, any implication that the driver was acting foolishly or irresponsibly is both unkind and without foundation. The passenger is obviously swept into the tragedy and cannot possibly be anything other that a victim of the circumstance.
I've read banter in other forums about the "dangerous " CGT, stating that the car is allegedly a difficult car to drive. As a CGT owner, I must emphatically disagree. The CGT may be difficult to manage at the absolute limits of adhesion, but I have yet to find those limits. With modern tires (PS2s) and the traction control in the on position, its certainly no worse than any other high performance sports car. Heck, its a lamb compared to the Ford GT, which car I own and which have been crashed at a truly prodigious rate.
I have no idea what happened in this case, and I will not try to guess. Let's all be safe and careful.
On a completely different subject and unrelated to the tragedy which gave rise to the thread, most of the street accidents I have either witnessed, seen video of, or heard first hand accounts of involve wild oversteer followed by overcorrection. This is the natural result of mashing the throttle while turning at a relatively low speed, especially at an intersection. The simple rule of driving a high horsepower car: don't accelerate while turning. Heaven knows that with 600 hp, there is plenty of adrenaline to be safely found in a straight line or on a twisty canyon road. If you want smoking oversteer like you see on Top Gear, find a LARGE parking lot or an airstrip.
I've read banter in other forums about the "dangerous " CGT, stating that the car is allegedly a difficult car to drive. As a CGT owner, I must emphatically disagree. The CGT may be difficult to manage at the absolute limits of adhesion, but I have yet to find those limits. With modern tires (PS2s) and the traction control in the on position, its certainly no worse than any other high performance sports car. Heck, its a lamb compared to the Ford GT, which car I own and which have been crashed at a truly prodigious rate.
I have no idea what happened in this case, and I will not try to guess. Let's all be safe and careful.
On a completely different subject and unrelated to the tragedy which gave rise to the thread, most of the street accidents I have either witnessed, seen video of, or heard first hand accounts of involve wild oversteer followed by overcorrection. This is the natural result of mashing the throttle while turning at a relatively low speed, especially at an intersection. The simple rule of driving a high horsepower car: don't accelerate while turning. Heaven knows that with 600 hp, there is plenty of adrenaline to be safely found in a straight line or on a twisty canyon road. If you want smoking oversteer like you see on Top Gear, find a LARGE parking lot or an airstrip.
My exact sentiments. There have been fatalities in Ford GT's, Ferrari's (remember the star of "TapOut" and the 360 CS), P-cars, etc. It's human nature to scrutinize the vehicle as a major cause of an accident when a super car is involved. I took out my CGT for a drive today…treated it with ultimate respect as the roads were a little damp and cool. I'm going to enjoy it and my FGT at 7/10's.
12-01-2013, 10:51 PM
#127
I was a paratrooper and served in Iraq in 2005. There was no hesitation on my part to run toward fires, help my buddies and continue mission. Been there done that.
If I saw that car on fire I would help people get away from it. There's no way I'm dying to try and save two idiots driving negligently.
No one has the ***** to say that a Carerra GT WILL NOT SPLIT IN HALF AND COMBUST IF YOU DRIVE SENSIBLY AND WITH REGARD TO OTHERS' SAFETY.
I refuse to run toward a fire caused by negligent idiots. I'll just get everyone else around away and to safety, thanks.
12-01-2013, 11:00 PM
#128
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Please don't compare "running toward the sound of gunfire" with running toward a burning exotic vehicle on a 20MPH road.
I was a paratrooper and served in Iraq in 2005. There was no hesitation on my part to run toward fires, help my buddies and continue mission. Been there done that.
If I saw that car on fire I would help people get away from it. There's no way I'm dying to try and save two idiots driving negligently.
No one has the ***** to say that a Carerra GT WILL NOT SPLIT IN HALF AND COMBUST IF YOU DRIVE SENSIBLY AND WITH REGARD TO OTHERS' SAFETY.
I refuse to run toward a fire caused by negligent idiots. I'll just get everyone else around away and to safety, thanks.
I was a paratrooper and served in Iraq in 2005. There was no hesitation on my part to run toward fires, help my buddies and continue mission. Been there done that.
If I saw that car on fire I would help people get away from it. There's no way I'm dying to try and save two idiots driving negligently.
No one has the ***** to say that a Carerra GT WILL NOT SPLIT IN HALF AND COMBUST IF YOU DRIVE SENSIBLY AND WITH REGARD TO OTHERS' SAFETY.
I refuse to run toward a fire caused by negligent idiots. I'll just get everyone else around away and to safety, thanks.
12-01-2013, 11:06 PM
#129
Thanks for your service. I do not think you would have reacted in the same way the author of that video reacted... who was simply worried about his own safety a few hundred feet away safe inside a vehicle, filming, talking... while the safety of the drivers of that car was obviously in question. Maybe the "sound of bullets" analogy was a bit much, I was simply dumbfounded by the video.
In a situation like that, the car isn't going to explode like other bystanders say, but fireballs are likely as pressure builds and other combustible materials/fluids enter the equation so being helpful and calling EMS or just getting their car out of the road and assisting anyone else who is at distance would have been a good idea.
They should have not been driving, focused on filming and gossiping but they got some internet attention that they wanted, I guess.
12-01-2013, 11:23 PM
#130
Burning Brakes
RIP Paul and Roger. Very, very sad news. While I do not condone driving fast on the street (save it for the track); I do appreciate the fact that they lived life to fullest and followed their passions. Most people spend their entire lives worried about safety (most cases grossly exaggerating the risks, etc.) and missing out on many many things. I don't think speeding on the streets should be one of those experiences... but it seems these two clearly loved speed and at least died doing what they loved (as cliches as that sounds).... it sure beats dying in some cold hospital of some disease. We all are going to die. This is the ONLY certainty. What we do with the time between now and then is what's most important. Life is now. Not tomorrow or yesterday. So be safe out there.
I also wonder if there was a car doing donuts (you can see the tire marks) and as Roger exited the turn and lifted or swerved to avoid a collision and ended up off the road. Given the event was so close and lots of cars at the event.. it seems very, very plausible. I hope they look into that as well.
I also wonder if there was a car doing donuts (you can see the tire marks) and as Roger exited the turn and lifted or swerved to avoid a collision and ended up off the road. Given the event was so close and lots of cars at the event.. it seems very, very plausible. I hope they look into that as well.
12-01-2013, 11:30 PM
#131
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Thanks for your service. I do not think you would have reacted in the same way the author of that video reacted... who was simply worried about his own safety a few hundred feet away safe inside a vehicle, filming, talking... while the safety of the drivers of that car was obviously in question. Maybe the "sound of bullets" analogy was a bit much, I was simply dumbfounded by the video.
as an ordianry citizen without appropriate safety equipment, the first thing to remember in approaching any accident/danger site where you may potentially be able to offer aid, is to assess your own safety before offering assistance to the victim(s). If there is risk of danger, you do not proceed. A crashed car engulfed in flames is a probable cause for danger.
four dead guys is not better than two. they made the right decision. uploading it to youtube on the other hand is questionable, but we have all watched the video so who are we to judge.
RIP to Roger Rodas and Paul Walker.
12-01-2013, 11:53 PM
#133
I agree with your points entirely, but want to add that I didn't read Eduardo's comments as suggesting that ESC would prevent this specific accident. (There's no question it can prevent some accidents.)
Eduardo writes very, very carefully and his only point, which I agree with, was that the ghost of lawsuits past may come back in this case. It's somewhat unfortunate that Porsche decided to settle, as a decision in their favor arguably would have been good to quell further suits. (Don't read that as "precedent"; civil suits don't work that way.) Whereas their decision to settle may indeed be magnetic.
You are correct that Eduardo mis-stated Porsche's culpability in the 2005 case:
Porsche was not held responsible, not even partially. They 8% payment was strictly voluntary and doesn't even imply any responsibility. It probably came to such an odd number like that because that's what Porsche figured it'd cost them in legal costs if the case went to court.
While there is some driver risk, personal responsibility and all that, in the 2005 case I believe that the track was grossly negligent and should have borne the full "responsibility". (You can google the details of the accident.) It is somewhat ashame for the car culture that this case didn't go to court.
Eduardo writes very, very carefully and his only point, which I agree with, was that the ghost of lawsuits past may come back in this case. It's somewhat unfortunate that Porsche decided to settle, as a decision in their favor arguably would have been good to quell further suits. (Don't read that as "precedent"; civil suits don't work that way.) Whereas their decision to settle may indeed be magnetic.
You are correct that Eduardo mis-stated Porsche's culpability in the 2005 case:
While there is some driver risk, personal responsibility and all that, in the 2005 case I believe that the track was grossly negligent and should have borne the full "responsibility". (You can google the details of the accident.) It is somewhat ashame for the car culture that this case didn't go to court.
12-02-2013, 01:14 AM
#134
I agree with your points entirely, but want to add that I didn't read Eduardo's comments as suggesting that ESC would prevent this specific accident. (There's no question it can prevent some accidents.)
Eduardo writes very, very carefully and his only point, which I agree with, was that the ghost of lawsuits past may come back in this case. It's somewhat unfortunate that Porsche decided to settle, as a decision in their favor arguably would have been good to quell further suits. (Don't read that as "precedent"; civil suits don't work that way.) Whereas their decision to settle may indeed be magnetic.
You are correct that Eduardo mis-stated Porsche's culpability in the 2005 case:
"Porsche decided to include both (ESC & TC), in what they called PSM, for the .2 997 gt3, RS, and 4.0 - perhaps as the result of the issues raised in this legal case and the fact that Porsche was held partially responsible!"
Porsche was not held responsible, not even partially. They 8% payment was strictly voluntary and doesn't even imply any responsibility. It probably came to such an odd number like that because that's what Porsche figured it'd cost them in legal costs if the case went to court.
While there is some driver risk, personal responsibility and all that, in the 2005 case I believe that the track was grossly negligent and should have borne the full "responsibility". (You can google the details of the accident.) It is somewhat ashame for the car culture that this case didn't go to court.
Eduardo writes very, very carefully and his only point, which I agree with, was that the ghost of lawsuits past may come back in this case. It's somewhat unfortunate that Porsche decided to settle, as a decision in their favor arguably would have been good to quell further suits. (Don't read that as "precedent"; civil suits don't work that way.) Whereas their decision to settle may indeed be magnetic.
You are correct that Eduardo mis-stated Porsche's culpability in the 2005 case:
"Porsche decided to include both (ESC & TC), in what they called PSM, for the .2 997 gt3, RS, and 4.0 - perhaps as the result of the issues raised in this legal case and the fact that Porsche was held partially responsible!"
Porsche was not held responsible, not even partially. They 8% payment was strictly voluntary and doesn't even imply any responsibility. It probably came to such an odd number like that because that's what Porsche figured it'd cost them in legal costs if the case went to court.
While there is some driver risk, personal responsibility and all that, in the 2005 case I believe that the track was grossly negligent and should have borne the full "responsibility". (You can google the details of the accident.) It is somewhat ashame for the car culture that this case didn't go to court.
Saludos,
Eduardo
RIP / Roger Rodas and Paul Walker
12-02-2013, 01:15 AM
#135
Instructor
Hi guys. As you probably saw on Autoweek this car was in fact my old CGT I sold about a year ago. However I must tell everyone I am ashamed that for some reason my name has even been brought into this terrible situation. I don't get why it matters that it was my old car, and frankly I have been pretty sad and beat up the past day that for some reason I have been thrown into this.
I knew right when I saw the pics it was 0479, my old guards red CGT. I did the matte black wheels and knew there wasn't many out there like that, in fact maybe one of 2 i have ever seen.
I just hope Paul and Roger are in better places now. RIP guys, you left us too soon.
I knew right when I saw the pics it was 0479, my old guards red CGT. I did the matte black wheels and knew there wasn't many out there like that, in fact maybe one of 2 i have ever seen.
I just hope Paul and Roger are in better places now. RIP guys, you left us too soon.