Fast and Furious Paul Walker killed in CGT
12-02-2013, 02:41 PM
#181
A bridge on the road into the downtown area near my office lists our state traffic fatality count with a safe driving message. - i believe the total this year is just under 300 lives so far. crazy sad number of people... and that doesnt list the # hurt ..
i am not a race car driver - but i have spent enough time on the track in multiple types of cars to have an opinion.. my 2cents.. these modern super cars are way way too fast for most of the people buying them. not sure what to do about that. and yes i am jealous.. but 200+ hp seems to be enough for me. 400+ i cant imagine and surely would have turned some of my 'whooaaa' moments into something much worse.. i am sure we all have those moments.
i respect everyone's opinion but and really feel bad for everyone involved on this tragedy but i dont like some of the posts above calling people names and such... none of us know .. and even if mistakes were made - they are mistakes and these are good people with family, friends, co workers,etc. lots of hurting people .. too soon to sit jury and judge.
i am not a race car driver - but i have spent enough time on the track in multiple types of cars to have an opinion.. my 2cents.. these modern super cars are way way too fast for most of the people buying them. not sure what to do about that. and yes i am jealous.. but 200+ hp seems to be enough for me. 400+ i cant imagine and surely would have turned some of my 'whooaaa' moments into something much worse.. i am sure we all have those moments.
i respect everyone's opinion but and really feel bad for everyone involved on this tragedy but i dont like some of the posts above calling people names and such... none of us know .. and even if mistakes were made - they are mistakes and these are good people with family, friends, co workers,etc. lots of hurting people .. too soon to sit jury and judge.
Last edited by davePorsche; 12-02-2013 at 05:32 PM.
12-02-2013, 02:49 PM
#182
Three Wheelin'
I think back fondly on watching Fast & Furious while on a long motorcycle trip to Montreal from Chicago. The weather was awful and we decided to get out of the rain and wind and off the treacherous road. The movie entertained us, we warmed up and hit the road again.
Paul Walker always struck me as a good dude. It is sad. My friend Ben and I could be substituted for Paul and the driver. There are many times we could have died as a result of our extreme activities. I feel lucky when reading about this tragedy.
Facts and assignment of blame bring no one back from the dead. That is an extreme car.
Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you.
Michael
Paul Walker always struck me as a good dude. It is sad. My friend Ben and I could be substituted for Paul and the driver. There are many times we could have died as a result of our extreme activities. I feel lucky when reading about this tragedy.
Facts and assignment of blame bring no one back from the dead. That is an extreme car.
Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you.
Michael
12-02-2013, 03:09 PM
#183
Rennlist Member
Some new info to consider according to TMZ: http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/02/paul-w...#ixzz2mLSYyyBg
The exotic sports car in which Paul Walker violently died, crashed as a result of mechanical failure -- very possibly a steering fluid leak ... this according to sources closely tied to the auto shop where the vehicle was stored and maintained.
Sources connected to Always Evolving -- the shop co-owned by Walker and the Porsche driver Roger Rodas -- tell TMZ they saw evidence of a fluid burst and subsequent fluid trail before the skid marks at the accident scene.
The AE sources point to the fact there is a noticeable absence of skid marks until just before the point of impact. They say if Roger had lost control the skid marks would show swerving, but instead the marks were in a straight line. They feel this cements the theory the driver didn't have steering control.
Also suspicious -- the fire spreading so quickly in the front of the car. The sources say flames would be expected in the rear where the engine is ... but fire in the front reinforces their theory of a fluid leak of some sort.
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/02/paul-w...#ixzz2mLWRXmoI
Sources connected to Always Evolving -- the shop co-owned by Walker and the Porsche driver Roger Rodas -- tell TMZ they saw evidence of a fluid burst and subsequent fluid trail before the skid marks at the accident scene.
The AE sources point to the fact there is a noticeable absence of skid marks until just before the point of impact. They say if Roger had lost control the skid marks would show swerving, but instead the marks were in a straight line. They feel this cements the theory the driver didn't have steering control.
Also suspicious -- the fire spreading so quickly in the front of the car. The sources say flames would be expected in the rear where the engine is ... but fire in the front reinforces their theory of a fluid leak of some sort.
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/02/paul-w...#ixzz2mLWRXmoI
12-02-2013, 03:51 PM
#184
Pro
Interesting to read the posts from everybody here, like somebody mentioned, there are folks here that are very smart and can find different angles of fault. But as everybody knows excessive speed kills and now we are left with two fathers that can no longer breath or exhale life.
The car was apparently a low mileage GT, a garage queen at best. Seals dry and give out under extreme duress, this is one of those perfect examples. Just my 02cents.
Too sad!
RIP Gentleman.
The car was apparently a low mileage GT, a garage queen at best. Seals dry and give out under extreme duress, this is one of those perfect examples. Just my 02cents.
Too sad!
RIP Gentleman.
12-02-2013, 04:13 PM
#187
A couple of the articles I have read on this terrible tragedy have made reference to the fact that the Porsche Carrera GT is a notoriously difficult car to handle. Is this the prevailing view among those who know? Is it the 600+ HP or something else? Thanks in advance for your thoughtful replies.
I have been lucky enough to drive one at speed, I can attest this car should be respected. I drove a friends car and I could tell from the seat of my pants that this car was to be respected and I did just that. I think I had it up to 140 or so but always realizing that the backend I could make come around at anytime I wanted, since it was not my car, I didn't try hanging the rear end out.
I have been lucky enough to drive one at speed, I can attest this car should be respected. I drove a friends car and I could tell from the seat of my pants that this car was to be respected and I did just that. I think I had it up to 140 or so but always realizing that the backend I could make come around at anytime I wanted, since it was not my car, I didn't try hanging the rear end out.
12-02-2013, 05:43 PM
#188
Rennlist Member
A couple of the articles I have read on this terrible tragedy have made reference to the fact that the Porsche Carrera GT is a notoriously difficult car to handle. Is this the prevailing view among those who know? Is it the 600+ HP or something else? Thanks in advance for your thoughtful replies.
I have been lucky enough to drive one at speed, I can attest this car should be respected. I drove a friends car and I could tell from the seat of my pants that this car was to be respected and I did just that. I think I had it up to 140 or so but always realizing that the backend I could make come around at anytime I wanted, since it was not my car, I didn't try hanging the rear end out.
I have been lucky enough to drive one at speed, I can attest this car should be respected. I drove a friends car and I could tell from the seat of my pants that this car was to be respected and I did just that. I think I had it up to 140 or so but always realizing that the backend I could make come around at anytime I wanted, since it was not my car, I didn't try hanging the rear end out.
12-02-2013, 06:22 PM
#189
Based on what I have read and anectdotal info from someone I know who owns a CGT, they can be a beast even for the most skilled drivers. My friend said the CGT scared him more than any other car he has ever driven. This coming from a guy that used to professionally race Porsche 911s and owns several Porsche 911s, Ferrari Scuderia, blah blah blah. That car is a handful.
On an unrelated note :
If I was an American owner I would concerned with who is looking after my car . In Europe there are special Carrera GT Technicians , they go through specific training.
These are fine instruments and as such need maintenance by trained personnel that know the cars and know what needs doing and how/when on them , it is not enough to take these cars to just any old Porsche dealer or race shop for maintenance .
I urge you American owners to have your GTs looked after by CARRERA GT TRAINED TECHNICIANS , it may be a good deal further than your local shop but it is worth it .
12-02-2013, 06:29 PM
#190
Nordschleife Master
Chip Ganassi tells his drivers: " A crash is always your fault". His point was even if you get collected you put yourself in the position to get taken out. With all the hub bub about this crash it all comes down to something we all can take to heart. Try your best to make good decisions. Love your family and friends, it only takes a moment for you to be gone. The pain is over for the guys in the car it is just beginning for their family.
12-02-2013, 06:53 PM
#192
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
really sad indeed
RIP. Only met Paul once back in 06 at a club and he seemed really nice. Aside from all the car related stuff, I for one also appreciate the spotlight he shone on the plight of Great White Sharks.
RIP. Only met Paul once back in 06 at a club and he seemed really nice. Aside from all the car related stuff, I for one also appreciate the spotlight he shone on the plight of Great White Sharks.
12-02-2013, 06:55 PM
#193
I marvel at what the initiated must think when they read about the "dangerous" Carrera GT. Based on the nonsense that is presented online, I'm sure the average reader has visions of driving along at 60 mph when the car suddenly erupts into massive oversteer and leaps off the road of its own accord. It then spontaneously combusts. "How" they ask while wringing their hands, "could Porsche do such a thing?"
ANY car gets spooky when it is on the very threshold of adhesion. Whether it commences with benign understeer in your average Camry at 35mph or snap oversteer in a supercar like the CGT at 120, the dynamics are quite challenging. The point is, in general street driving an experienced exotic car driver NEVER EVER even comes close to reaching these lofty limits. Therefore, to say the Carrera GT is an especially dangerous car is like saying a .50 cal pistol is an especially dangerous gun. Yes it may be, but not in the hands of someone with skill, judgment and common sense. Without reference to this tragedy, any object, including a car, can be made dangerous by poor judgment.
ANY car gets spooky when it is on the very threshold of adhesion. Whether it commences with benign understeer in your average Camry at 35mph or snap oversteer in a supercar like the CGT at 120, the dynamics are quite challenging. The point is, in general street driving an experienced exotic car driver NEVER EVER even comes close to reaching these lofty limits. Therefore, to say the Carrera GT is an especially dangerous car is like saying a .50 cal pistol is an especially dangerous gun. Yes it may be, but not in the hands of someone with skill, judgment and common sense. Without reference to this tragedy, any object, including a car, can be made dangerous by poor judgment.
12-02-2013, 07:21 PM
#194
Advanced
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the power steering suddenly went out and they were going 40-45 MPH, I can see how this would have happened.
Have you ever tried to steer a car with the power steering out? Yes, it can be done....but it's NOT easy, at all, especially when you have a split second to realize this and try to react. I wonder if they even knew the PS went out until they tried to steer a bit and noticed it wasn't moving....and going even 45 MPH when you finally do realize this doesn't leave you more than a split second before you crash into a pole on even a slight turn.
I agree with what a lot of other people said...if they were going 100 MPH, I think the wreckage would have been a lot worse. There are several variables....was there a gas line there, was there a PS leak that may have contributed to a fire in the front?
My point is they may have been going the speed limit and not known the PS went out until it was too late and there wouldn't have been anything they could have done to prevent it. It was a freak thing possibly...and like someone else mentioned, it's very possible a seal dried up considering the car was not driven much.
Sad story, regardless.....by all accounts both men were stand up guys and were experienced drivers. A race car driver driving 100 probably is akin to a normal person with no race experience driving 30. They are trained to drive that fast. Sure sure...political correctness says going over the speed limit is bad. I get it. However, we all know it's not always that black and white.
Have you ever tried to steer a car with the power steering out? Yes, it can be done....but it's NOT easy, at all, especially when you have a split second to realize this and try to react. I wonder if they even knew the PS went out until they tried to steer a bit and noticed it wasn't moving....and going even 45 MPH when you finally do realize this doesn't leave you more than a split second before you crash into a pole on even a slight turn.
I agree with what a lot of other people said...if they were going 100 MPH, I think the wreckage would have been a lot worse. There are several variables....was there a gas line there, was there a PS leak that may have contributed to a fire in the front?
My point is they may have been going the speed limit and not known the PS went out until it was too late and there wouldn't have been anything they could have done to prevent it. It was a freak thing possibly...and like someone else mentioned, it's very possible a seal dried up considering the car was not driven much.
Sad story, regardless.....by all accounts both men were stand up guys and were experienced drivers. A race car driver driving 100 probably is akin to a normal person with no race experience driving 30. They are trained to drive that fast. Sure sure...political correctness says going over the speed limit is bad. I get it. However, we all know it's not always that black and white.
12-02-2013, 07:29 PM
#195
I marvel at what the initiated must think when they read about the "dangerous" Carrera GT. Based on the nonsense that is presented online, I'm sure the average reader has visions of driving along at 60 mph when the car suddenly erupts into massive oversteer and leaps off the road of its own accord. It then spontaneously combusts. "How" they ask while wringing their hands, "could Porsche do such a thing?"
ANY car gets spooky when it is on the very threshold of adhesion. Whether it commences with benign understeer in your average Camry at 35mph or snap oversteer in a supercar like the CGT at 120, the dynamics are quite challenging. The point is, in general street driving an experienced exotic car driver NEVER EVER even comes close to reaching these lofty limits. Therefore, to say the Carrera GT is an especially dangerous car is like saying a .50 cal pistol is an especially dangerous gun. Yes it may be, but not in the hands of someone with skill, judgment and common sense. Without reference to this tragedy, any object, including a car, can be made dangerous by poor judgment.
ANY car gets spooky when it is on the very threshold of adhesion. Whether it commences with benign understeer in your average Camry at 35mph or snap oversteer in a supercar like the CGT at 120, the dynamics are quite challenging. The point is, in general street driving an experienced exotic car driver NEVER EVER even comes close to reaching these lofty limits. Therefore, to say the Carrera GT is an especially dangerous car is like saying a .50 cal pistol is an especially dangerous gun. Yes it may be, but not in the hands of someone with skill, judgment and common sense. Without reference to this tragedy, any object, including a car, can be made dangerous by poor judgment.