Tosa5

Hello All,

Happy Holidays!

After 11 months of ownership, I’m still loving my Panamera (2022 4S e-Hybrid ST), and I am planning on a road trip this week from San Francisco to LA. Once I get to LA, I will drive Mulholland Dr through the mountains, for the first time. I also look forward to driving on Angels Crest HWY but that will have to wait for another time. Looking forward to the chance to put some more miles on my car.

Here are some miscellaneous notes from my first year with my Panamera:

1.) Just had my first oil change - I am old school, and I’m used to doing a ‘engine run-in early oil change’ to get rid of the metal shavings the come into the oil in a brand new engine. My 2005 M3 included this oil change at 1200 miles as part of the factory warranty. Given this experience, and even though Porsche said the 1st oil change should be at 10,000 miles or one year, I considered doing the 1st oil change at just a few thousand miles (even though that is not covered by the warranty). I had trouble believing that anyone, even Porsche, could have improved the engine tolerances to the point where there are no metal shavings. Fortunately, I was able to avoid paying out of pocket for an additional oil change because in the first year of ownership, I have driven only 6,600 total miles, and only 3,600 of those miles were on the ICE. So the 1st year oil change happened at just about 1/3 of the 10,000 miles on the ICE, which will address any metal shaving issues, if there really are any.

2.) Tires - during the dealer oil change last week, they checked many things, and my brake pads are not very worn, but they said that my front tires are worn down enough that I will need to replace them soon, and the rear tires are less worn. This surprised my because a.) I have never had front tires wear faster than rear tires, but this is my first 4WD car, so maybe the front tires pull more than I thought, and b.) I can’t imagine replacing any tires at about 10,000 miles, when I don’t track the car. I live in Northern California where it (unfortunately) rains very little, and we have zero rain from April to November. I am planing to at least wait until November, 2023 before I consider new tires, b/c even if my tread gets low, there is no water on the road that the tread need to dissipate. After all, the best traction in dry weather comes from having a slick tire, but I won’t let my tires wear anywhere near that point.

3.) E-Power range - I took a trip to Paso Robles, CA (3 hour drive each way from the Bay Area), and I started with a fully charged battery, and drove very steadily at about 70 MPH and got 29 miles on full electric before the ICE kicked in. Even though the manual says to charge the batter only to 80% (about 24 miles for me), I end up charging the battery fully each time because I don’t want to constantly check it in order to pull out the cable when it gets to 24 miles. My Tesla enables me to limit my charging to 80% of the battery , and it turns off the charging process automatically at the set limit. I guess I’ll find out if charging it to full every time reduces my battery life, in 6-7 years.

4.) Engine operating temperature - I’ve wondered about driving the car in e-hybrid, which causes the ICE to kick in, but on short trips, the ICE doesn’t have a chance to warm up. I saw an extensive discussion on Rennlist, and the consensus was that if you use the ICE at all, you should drive it until the oil gets up to full operating temp (about 200 degrees). This is to ensure that the engine gets hot enough to evaporate the moisture that works its way into the oil and other engine spaces, so it can’t damage the engine. What are all of you doing on this issue? Always driving until the engine is hot, or just hoping there in no engine damage the creates issues down the road?

I'm interested in any comments on any of the topics above.

MCW100

I commend you on your patience. It's borderline agonizing for me to drive in e-only unless in stop and go traffic. Out of curiosity why not just get a Taycan if mileage is a high priority?

jbkanas

Good Evening,
In response to #4: I recently received a message from my 2022 Panamera eHybrid telling me that I needed to run the ICE for an "extended period" a a couple of weeks ago. I had been driving the Panamera in E-Power mode almost exclusively since Thanksgiving and the Panamera decided that the ICE needed some exercise. The manual indicates that this message occurs when gasoline contamination is detected in the oil when the ICE has been infrequently used. I took it out for a 30mi drive in Sport mode so the ICE was operating the full time.. Coolant reached 194F and oil 210F. When I returned home, the alert was no longer present.

I was also concerned about limited use of the ICE, especially during cold weather resulting in oil contamination from moisture and fuel from the continuously pressurized fuel system. It was a relief to find that the Panamera will let me know when it needs to be brought up to temperature.

Targa32

Porsche decided to nix my Nose stereo but not give my salesman any notice about this deletion on my executive Panamera 4 hybrid so I could upgrade to the crazy priced Burmeister stereo for $7,000 plus. So now the car has been built with the “standard” stereo.

So now my wife is concerned this “dream car” for her will have a stereo system that sounds like a Honda Civic.

Does anyone have the base stereo in a Panamera? If so / any thoughts on the sound quality?

i understand some Panamera’s are shipping without the rear seat a/c controls - if my car is one of these - my salesman and I will have some a real problem. My wife forced me to sell her Mercedes’ s560 (2020) because the rear seat a/c had very poor cooling ability and there were no controls for the rear seat passengers. Also the cooled seats in a Mercedes do not blow air out but only suck air down through the perforations in the leather. Stupid. They say it “sucks” your body heat away. Truth is they saved money by not running ducts to the seats.

I guess all of the Panamera’s leaving the factory these days also have a mechanical steering wheel adjustment.

seems like Porsche needs to give a buyer 5 days to decide to keep an allocation of cancel when they remove an option after the car build has locked and any deposit is 100% returnable.

my car started building at the factory on November 2 and today it is December 27th and still at the factory.

must be a door handle or something missing. Already told my SA that if the car is missing the rear A/C control panel we have a serious issue. He says there is no way for him to find out from Porsche.

orca15

Couple of thoughts-

You misunderstand me. Mileage not a huge priority, but when I drive around town I am just not in "Porsche mode." I am in "get the groceries" mode. That's when I DON'T want a 911 and why I tire of them. I like the quiet and smoothness of the EV, until I want to rock and roll, then the 911 face of the car gets put on.

Also, Panamera >> Taycan. Have you been in one? For one thing, I don't fit in a Taycan. If an EV Panamera was available, I might consider it...but I have trips where the virtually unlimited range of the Panamera hybrid is perfect.

Finally, one of my problems with the 911 was I was always mad at every other driver for being in my way and going too slow, especially around town. In E mode, it is sedate enough that this Porsche madness goes away and I can just drive like a normal human being. Obviously a personal problem, but my wife shares it. We test drove a P4S and decided against Panamera, until later on we drove the P4E - just as fast, but we weren't always mad at the rest of the world. Niche market, I get it.

SS22

1) After driving about 6k miles in my first year (2k of those in ICE), I got my service done too. I’m sure the engine appreciates an oil change after only 2k miles!!

2) My front tires also wore out more than my rears and it was also a surprise to me having had RWD sport cars in the past. But mine are still decent and I don’t need new ones yet. I’m guessing I’ll go 10k or more before needing new front tires and maybe close to 15k or more before needing rear tires. I will say that I’ve done a lot of launch controls and even in e-power, I tend to take off quickly off the line, which undoubtedly contributes to faster wear on these tires. By the way, I have the 22 inch performance summer tires from Michelin. I’ll look back at my records to see how much tread I have left on my tires. As for my brakes, they’ve hardly been used up thanks to the regen braking!

3) My understanding is that the Panamera’s battery doesn’t charge more than 95% because of the buffer that Porsche designed into the system. If that’s true, then I’m not even technically charging it to 100%. When I charge it fully, I get anywhere from 26-36 miles of pure EV range (depending on weather and how I drive). Given we don’t get that much EV range as it is, I don’t really wanna charge it less. I know with EVs, it’s best to not charge them more than 80-90% to maintain good range long term… but the Panamera battery already charges to 95% max and we have an 8-year warranty on it, if it really becomes terrible then we can make a claim and get it replaced. I think given the small range we already have, any benefit to charging it to 80 or 90% will be very slim and not worth it to me.

4) If I know that my drive won’t be exclusively in e-power, then I either warm up the engine in my garage before I leave the house (turn it on, put it in sport mode and wait until the temp gets above 110° F. the car itself is ready to go after about 30 seconds, the way you know is that the RPM level goes down, but I like to wait a little longer. Either way, unless you immediately flood it, it’s good enough to warm it a little and then by the time I pull out the driveway and neighborhood, the engine is above 170° which is really good. There’s been a few times when I’ve tried to keep it in e-power (say to go to the grocery store) and I push too hard on the gas pedal which makes the engine turn on.. I’ve cringed because the engine goes from cold turkey (70-80°) to suddenly wake up going 40 miles an hour or something. So I try very hard to avoid those situations.

EDIT: After 5,800 miles of driving (as of time of recent service), my brakes have 8mm tread left (almost new!), my front tires have 4.5mm of tread (about 50% or so), and my rear tires have 5.7mm of tread (almost 70%). And again, I’ve done lots of launch controls. So, I’m surprised that you’d need tires this early @Tosa5 — did they give you measurements?

orca15

I think the current thinking is that it is better to run the car at low/medium RPM for a bit after it starts, rather than let it idle in the garage. IIRC the manual even says to start the car and drive off "gently" when it is cold out. So, IMO, the above is actually better than what you are doing by warming it up first in the garage.

Sparrow88

Hello All Im new here.

I got a Used Panamera S E-hybrid 2014.
The car is nice and all. But I cant seem to get any good fuel economy in Hybrid mode?

Calmly roaming in city in Hybrid mode (no other modes pressed , just sit and drive) it shows 13-15+ liter / 100 km

Can this really be? or did I miss something?
I would assume it should be lower than this.

And yes the battery is charging when stopping.

Tosa5

Welcome! My 2022 Panamera 4S e-Hybrid may be different, but when in my car, the e-Hybrid driving mode changes the engine so that it a.) can access the 8th gear (I don't think Sport and Sport+ have access to that gear) and most importantly, it has the ability to cruise at about 1400 RPM on the highway, which is lower than what S/S+ modes can do. The PDK probably shifts differently to optimize gas mileage. I just finished a road trip which is about 400 miles each way, and on a leg of about 290 miles, I got 32 miles per gallon (I leave it to you to convert to liters), and I started with about 25 miles of electric range, which was completely consumed, but is a small effect over 290 miles. On the same trip, I had a 120 mile leg with no electric miles, and I still got about 32 miles per gallon. Both legs were very optimal driving, with cruise control, at about 65 mph average, with no rapid acceleration. I think you need to get input from people who have your exact car to know if it is operating normally.

orca15

14l/100km=16.8mpg; Seems a little low but maybe not much,,,It's a little hard to tell because it is easy to get 30-40 mpg on a 70 mile trip in my car by also using up the 33 miles of electric. Are you getting 14/100 while using up the battery, or maintaining battery?

I would say that, using only hybrid with out using up any charge, I can get close to 22mpg, including some highway driving. In fact. my 2022 window sticker says EPA 22mpg combined, gasoline only*, so I am guessing that comes from 18 city 25 highway, which means yours is a little low but not much.

* Gasoline only, I think, means "in hybrid mode, but not decreasing the battery."

SS22

Oh wow, that’s really interesting. I guess I’ll start idle for maybe 10 or so seconds and then “gently” drive out of the neighborhood. I had no idea about this.

Sparrow88

Thanks for the replies

No Im just experimenting to see what the best MPG I could get
So now after few days (differs each time) - Distance 30 km - I got 23-25 MPG
No E-power battery charge - just Hybrid mode

And veeery gentle driving

Just curious are there any other tips.
Was thinking to change the motor oil and filters just in case.

orca15

Found this in the manual:

orca15

I have read that you get the best mileage using e-power in the city and hybrid on the highway, so I tend to start off in E, change to hybrid for the main part of the trip, then go back to E when the miles to go are the same as the E miles left. Of course with the '22 I have 30+ E miles to play with so that helps- I can definitely get 40mpg on a 70mile trip. And that's normal driving plus a few zooms here and there.

SS22

How do they define “long” !?

Agreed re best mileage, @orca15. And for best fun, sport plus it is