GT350
#1156
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Neg - he had to lift off every time so he wouldn't get flagged, he mentioned this is when his wife took advantage and passed him in her Ferrari Challenge car.
#1157
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Max -
Low 1.30's for the GT350R http://www.mustang6g.com/?p=7410
The regular Boss 302 pulled a 1.40 lap time at Laguna Seca. The Laguna Seca version (essentially the R version) with R compounds, no backseats and suspension/cooling upgrades pulled a 1.39 (beating the Audi R8, Aston Martin DBS and M3 back in 2012).
Boss lap times - http://www.motortrend.com/news/2012-...boss-302-test/
Low 1.30's for the GT350R http://www.mustang6g.com/?p=7410
The regular Boss 302 pulled a 1.40 lap time at Laguna Seca. The Laguna Seca version (essentially the R version) with R compounds, no backseats and suspension/cooling upgrades pulled a 1.39 (beating the Audi R8, Aston Martin DBS and M3 back in 2012).
Boss lap times - http://www.motortrend.com/news/2012-...boss-302-test/
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I would not be surprised if 350R runs low 1:3xs (meaning under 1:35s, not under 1:30.5) with no lifting, pro driver and/or set of hoosiers, but 1:40 on a perfect day with a good driver is about 2-3s slower than an advanced amateur in a GT3 on OEM MPSC2 tires in same conditions. It's just one data point, so I was probably too quick to imply it's generalizeable.
#1159
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I don't think it was the production Boss - he owns a Boss 302R and a Boss302S (basically cup casr that you could buy direct form Ford Racing - no vin track only). Same engine as the production Boss 302 with heavily revised suspension, full cage, and slicks etc. http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/y...Boss302S12.jpg
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Max -
Low 1.30's for the GT350R http://www.mustang6g.com/?p=7410
The regular Boss 302 pulled a 1.40 lap time at Laguna Seca. The Laguna Seca version (essentially the R version) with R compounds, no backseats and suspension/cooling upgrades pulled a 1.39 (beating the Audi R8, Aston Martin DBS and M3 back in 2012).
Boss lap times - http://www.motortrend.com/news/2012-...boss-302-test/
Low 1.30's for the GT350R http://www.mustang6g.com/?p=7410
The regular Boss 302 pulled a 1.40 lap time at Laguna Seca. The Laguna Seca version (essentially the R version) with R compounds, no backseats and suspension/cooling upgrades pulled a 1.39 (beating the Audi R8, Aston Martin DBS and M3 back in 2012).
Boss lap times - http://www.motortrend.com/news/2012-...boss-302-test/
"As its hot shoe, Ford brought 2010 Rolex 24hrs Daytona GT class winner Jonathan Bomarito" - pro driver times are not comparable to what once-a-month track day crowd can do (as much as I'd love to say otherwise).
Do not get me wrong, I'm not putting down the car in any way, and I'd actually consider one if I did not have a GT3.
#1161
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I do not doubt that. But ...
"As its hot shoe, Ford brought 2010 Rolex 24hrs Daytona GT class winner Jonathan Bomarito" - pro driver times are not comparable to what once-a-month track day crowd can do (as much as I'd love to say otherwise).
Do not get me wrong, I'm not putting down the car in any way, and I'd actually consider one if I did not have a GT3.
"As its hot shoe, Ford brought 2010 Rolex 24hrs Daytona GT class winner Jonathan Bomarito" - pro driver times are not comparable to what once-a-month track day crowd can do (as much as I'd love to say otherwise).
Do not get me wrong, I'm not putting down the car in any way, and I'd actually consider one if I did not have a GT3.
Edit: (have never driven the Ring but wouldn't bet on much).
Last edited by Para82; 06-11-2016 at 03:10 PM.
#1162
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I find it very hard to believe these cars would even be comparable. I was at LS the same day the yellow mustang 350R was there, and it was at least 2 seconds per lap slower, despite me having to upshift to 6th to pass sound (my gps sound thing broke and I did not have turnout pipes). GT3 is a 1:37 car in arms of a hack like me (I've driven LS just ~6 times in my life) with upshifting 2 gears between 4 and 6, while 350R ran 1:40s, judging from the vid, with a good driver (I've seen very fast laps from the same driver). So the miracle did not happen.
Also, what's that about RWS introducing rear steer delay? The whole point of electric RWS is to eliminate the mechanical rear steer delay present in other cars. So it's a benefit, not a detractor.
Also, what's that about RWS introducing rear steer delay? The whole point of electric RWS is to eliminate the mechanical rear steer delay present in other cars. So it's a benefit, not a detractor.
Trust me, I don't blame you since it is hard to believe a Mustang costing almost 1/3 of the price would be even close to the GT3, let alone turning laps right in line with one. I'm a fan of the GT3 and it still blows my mind the GT350R is as fast, but it has been back to back on multiple tracks.
The RWS has had that delay and on data, that one place it looses time to the GT350R. The 350R's FR layout, more power, more downforce and...better balance makes up for its larger size, weight, and manual trans. I still think a fairly competent average track day guy could drive a 350R faster than a GT3, while a pro would be pretty close in each, with the GT3 just edging it out on most occasions.
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You can't compare any times at LS on a sound restricted track day. Way too many variables.
Trust me, I don't blame you since it is hard to believe a Mustang costing almost 1/3 of the price would be even close to the GT3, let alone turning laps right in line with one. I'm a fan of the GT3 and it still blows my mind the GT350R is as fast, but it has been back to back on multiple tracks.
The RWS has had that delay and on data, that one place it looses time to the GT350R. The 350R's FR layout, more power, more downforce and...better balance makes up for its larger size, weight, and manual trans. I still think a fairly competent average track day guy could drive a 350R faster than a GT3, while a pro would be pretty close in each, with the GT3 just edging it out on most occasions.
Trust me, I don't blame you since it is hard to believe a Mustang costing almost 1/3 of the price would be even close to the GT3, let alone turning laps right in line with one. I'm a fan of the GT3 and it still blows my mind the GT350R is as fast, but it has been back to back on multiple tracks.
The RWS has had that delay and on data, that one place it looses time to the GT350R. The 350R's FR layout, more power, more downforce and...better balance makes up for its larger size, weight, and manual trans. I still think a fairly competent average track day guy could drive a 350R faster than a GT3, while a pro would be pretty close in each, with the GT3 just edging it out on most occasions.
Anyway, I'm not making any definitive statements - it's just one datapoint. We'll have many more soon.
As for RWS causing delay, it makes no sense to me. Why would anyone do it then? Why Ferrari is adding it to its cars (e.g., F12tdf for now)? On cars without electric RWS, rear wheels steer as well, it's just happening mechanically - front wheels initiate the turn, the car starts to lean, the lean causes rear wheels to steer in the direction of the turn (more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steeri...wheel_steering ) The time it takes for the weight transfer and lean to happen is the rear-axle response lag, kind of a rubber band between front and rear axles, which makes a car less stable until it fully "settles".
Electric RWS turns rear wheels synchronously with front wheels, not needing to weight for weight transfer. So it's faster, not slower. It does not make the car faster automatically - it just allows to eliminate some pauses between inputs and in general makes handling a little bit more predictable.
As for a cheaper car being faster - it's not a shocker. I've been passed by an E46 more than once. Gut interior, add hoosiers, shocks and some makeshift aero, and E46 would run 1:37s, and it's still a sub $30K car (e.g.
#1164
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Different drivers, different experience levels, different lifts, you really can't compare times with these variables. You need the same driver in each car (pro or regular Joe) for a realistic comparison.
1:40 is a horrible time for a 350R. The Boss 302 LS street car turned those times and the 350R is MILES faster.
As far as RWS, its probably Porsches tuning to calm down the rear engine characteristics of the car. What's the crossover point where the rear tires turn the same direction as the fronts to the opposite? It's possible the delay I am experiencing is the change from the same to opposite direction as the speeds cross this threshold when entering hairpins.
1:40 is a horrible time for a 350R. The Boss 302 LS street car turned those times and the 350R is MILES faster.
As far as RWS, its probably Porsches tuning to calm down the rear engine characteristics of the car. What's the crossover point where the rear tires turn the same direction as the fronts to the opposite? It's possible the delay I am experiencing is the change from the same to opposite direction as the speeds cross this threshold when entering hairpins.
#1165
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Also, if a car is observed to be slower than expected on track despite being driven by a 'fast' driver, that could just mean the driver was taking it easy for some reason.
#1166
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^I agree. I guess there's 2 main considerations:
-Which car is outright faster (pro in both cars = objective)
-Which car can be driven faster by the majority of amateurs? (Subjective and a ton of variables).
I still hold that most amateurs can probably turn a faster lap in the GT350R than they could in the GT3.
-Which car is outright faster (pro in both cars = objective)
-Which car can be driven faster by the majority of amateurs? (Subjective and a ton of variables).
I still hold that most amateurs can probably turn a faster lap in the GT350R than they could in the GT3.
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^I agree. I guess there's 2 main considerations:
-Which car is outright faster (pro in both cars = objective)
-Which car can be driven faster by the majority of amateurs? (Subjective and a ton of variables).
I still hold that most amateurs can probably turn a faster lap in the GT350R than they could in the GT3.
-Which car is outright faster (pro in both cars = objective)
-Which car can be driven faster by the majority of amateurs? (Subjective and a ton of variables).
I still hold that most amateurs can probably turn a faster lap in the GT350R than they could in the GT3.
#1168
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Honestly who cares if the GT350R can turn a faster lap? It comes with a Flat Plane Crank V8, 8250RPM motor mated to a 6 speed manual, incredible suspension, superb wheel and tire setup and stunning looks. The GT3 is great, but you're not going to find this in any Porsche.
I was recently looking at the specs of other high end vehicles over 100k like the Aston Martin Vantage etc....made me laugh.
I was recently looking at the specs of other high end vehicles over 100k like the Aston Martin Vantage etc....made me laugh.
#1169
Burning Brakes
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I'd love to see a back-to-back track comparison of a 350R and a 991 GT3 - same pro driver in both cars, same tires on both cars, same track, same day, same conditions - hosted by an independent party. The comparison should include overall lap times, segment times, and a thorough description of relative handling characteristics near the limit by the pro driver. Any true car nerd would love it.
#1170
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Now that would be a good comparison I think many of us would like to see.. It would sure beat having us argue lap times and downforce potential on the forums.