M3Inline6

Absolutely. Those who want(ed) EV’s already have them. All that’s left are stragglers, that’s why EV sales have slowed down considerably and manufacturers are changing EV plans and diverting resources back to developing ICE’s….and to a lesser degree, hybrids.

aggie57

Understand, give them time . Seriously, imagine if someone said to you that you could run your ICE car for 1/2 the cost (or less), that it would reliably last 10+ years with minimal service, that you never had to go to a gas station, and as a bonus it had more room and was nicer to drive. I know that's not the full reality of owning a full EV right now, depreciation and insurance being the two obvious higher costs. But that'll change over time.

Mike818

I think the year over year increase in sales has slowed, but total EV sales per year is still increasing. ( In the U.S. )

Batteries and infra aren't fully baked yet. As those things get better the amount of people that can truly upgrade their standard of living with an EV will increase, and so will uptake.

I don't think people hate a particular propulsion system, I think it has much more to do with being forced into a lower standard of living.

EV's can't tow or haul. Having to make multiple stops at poorly engineered charging stations just to get the family w/ boat/rv/toys to the spot is a non-starter.

Plug-in's make a lot of sense, which is why I bought a PHEV X5. It can still do the things I need it to and can also be an EV for a large chunk of the time.

It's pretty obvious to me that the future of ICE will be a PHEV. It's not just me saying that, its the way the proposed legislation is crafted. I don't see that as a bad thing, I think the two systems compliment each other well, as long as the batteries keep getting better.

Bluehighways

That does have to be one of the biggest F-ups Toyota has ever made and they're not known for screwing up, but they did so big time with respect to BEV's.

Mike818

IIRC Toyota has been pretty vocal in their belief that with the current state of things (finite battery capacity, infra etc.) it would be better to build 10 hybrids with 30 miles of range than one EV with 300 miles of range*.

*numbers are just illustrative, I don't recall the exact figures.

I don't know about now, but back when I was shopping for a PHEV, the ADM dealers were asking and getting on Prius / Rav4 Prime was insane.

aggie57

Yeah, surprising they missed the boat by so much. Now they're years behind their biggest competition and have little choice but to resort to playing the FUD game.

jmrichards

Completely disagree. Toyota has advocated an "all of the above" approach, and are not afraid to say the silent part out loud. EV's as currently configured (including the crap infrastructure) are definitely not ready for prime time. Come back in 5 or 10 years, and maybe this will be an option for people other than upper middle/upper class people (who can charge at home) virtue signaling.

RRich

Toyota says that hybrids are better for the environment than EVs, because it takes the same amount of raw battery material to make a single electric vehicle as it does to make 90 hybrids, or six plug-in hybrids.

Toyota Was Always Right About EVs and Now Is Fully Enjoying Its “I Told You So” Moment!

nyca

Who is selling any BEVs in large numbers except Tesla and China? Nobody. Toyota or anyone else isn't going to be able to compete with Tesla on the "cool factor" and the lead they have developed, or with China on price. It's the same with all other makers except for a thin slice of luxury BEVs from the Germans, and even those won't be successful, look at Mercedes. Long term, if you want to push BEVs, you are handing the global auto industry to China. Just like they own the global solar panel industry. Hybrids give the existing automakers a chance to continue their business models, that's why Toyota has pushed it. Otherwise, China owns it all, they will undercut Tesla eventually also.

The West has to decide whether their green agenda is important enough to hand their auto industries to China.

jmrichards

We are already seeing the west react to China's predatory pricing on EV's since they can't sell enough in the domestic market to survive. I am not generally a fan of tariffs, but in China's case they are probably warrented.

aggie57

You don’t really expect us to treat that video seriously do you? Take a look at the videos on that channel; total anti-EV BS.

jmrichards

Sorry, but the video was spot on. First Mercedes says they are planning for many more years of ICE vehicles, and now several US states are bailing on California's stupid plan to force everyone to buy an EV or else. Reality is finally starting to set in, and only Toyota actually saw the future correctly.

M3Inline6

I agree with every one of these posts as they are spot.


Let’s not forget California is at the acme of virtue signaling and money mismanagement. The newest diabolical plan?…..to tax every driver for every mile driven within the state. That’ll pass just like the speed monitoring requirement nonsense destined for every automobile sold in the state beginning in a few years. Oh, the irony! Now that there are more EV’s in California, the state has lost gas tax revenue, so now the state is going to target EV’s to recoup that money. There is no free ride!

aggie57

Correct, EV’s need roads and we should pay for them just like gas cars do, road use charging is already in place in other countries so it’s hardly a new concept. As you say, there’s no free ride.

ipse dixit

https://www.cnbctv18.com/auto/porsch...n-19425177.htm