pdxmotorhead

SOAPBOX...

I used to work around the power industry, just take all the stuff the Oil companies have done and replay it buying up sources of electricity.

The only large scale power sources that are practical are Hydro electric and Nuke.. or Hydrogen which nobody notices is extracted from natuRal gas not sucked out of water..

Follow the money.. China and Spain own 90% of the windmills in the US they lease them to power companies they don't sell them. .

CHEERS

spdracerut

Hm. Weird. I can put solar on my home and energy storage and power everything. I can't pipe oil to my home, to my own refinery, and make my own gasoline.

Electricity generation can be decentralized.

And you live in SoCal right? You do see the air pollution right? I take it you're smart enough to know how that pollution is formed.

M3Inline6

Cars, in general, are a blip on the pollution map. The discussion of EV’s making a dent in the level of environmental pollution is akin to the discussion about [institutional] racism being blamed for every problem a particular racial group might encounter in life. They are boogeyman topics.

detansinn

In the United States, road vehicles are 16.4% of emissions. When you add in planes and boats, transportation as whole is 29%. That’s a bit more than a “blip”. As with other “boogeyman” topics, the actual numbers are compelling.

Yes, electricity is regulated so the price doesn’t change from one day to the next. At gas stations, you’re paying whatever they feel like charging you that day and there are no free market pressures other than charging you as much as they think that they can get away with.

Real energy independence is solar on your roof and an EV in the driveway. You can’t make your own gasoline, but you can make your own electricity to power your car. There are reasons that people with solar are so passionate about it — it changes how you look at energy.

I am not in the camp where you have to give up all of your ICE vehicles/toys. Heck, I have a garage with six of them. I do think that it is silly not to take advantage of solar if the option is available to you. With or without solar, EV daily driver will save you thousands in fuel costs — money that can be in invested or spent on more toys.

M3Inline6

We aren’t talking about planes and boats, so let’s remain intellectually honest here. We are talking about our little ICE’s running up and down the road that tree huggers swear are the detriment to life itself. CARS are but a blip compared to industry, especially industry in countries spewing tons of crap into the atmosphere on a daily basis sans the virtue signaling regulatory nonsense. There was even a U.S.-centric study that came out that demonstrated only a 1% change in environmental pollution if a large percentage of the national population biked to work rather than drove. You’re probably the same guy that thinks more money will fix the homeless issue(s) or ascend the black community out of poverty. It won’t!

aggie57

I had an interesting conversation this week with a program manager from PG&E; she outlined their "Distributed Energy Resources" program:

https://www.pge.com/en/save-energy-a...resources.html

Seems the have this initiative in response mainly as a way of mitigating risk of fire related to long transmission line runs, and making remote communities less dependent and exposed when they fail for whatever reason. Obviously a different rationale to home-based or similar generation facilities but interesting and kind of relevant.

aggie57

Actually we are talking boats. At least ferries and the like, a simple Google search will show up plenty of examples some of which go back years. Even container ships are in the firing line, although of course for now we're talking small regional ones like this:

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/worlds-la...20%22Cosco.%22

Ikone

"Passenger cars in the United States produced the equivalent of 370 million metric tons of carbon dioxide in 2022."
https://www.statista.com › ... › Emissions
U.S. passenger car GHG emissions 1990-2022 - Statista


"In 2022, U.S. greenhouse gas emissions totaled 6,343 million metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalents, and 5,489 million metric tons of carbon dioxide …"
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/inv...0land%20sector.


"Global energy-related CO2 emissions grew in 2022 by 0.9%, or 321 million tonnes, reaching a new high of more than 36.8 billion tonnes, according to the report."

Global CO2 emissions rose less than initially feared in 2022 ...

IEA – International Energy Agency
https://www.iea.org › news › global-co2-emissions-rose...


So, in the US cars account for 5.8% and if you got rid of every gas powered car in the US, you'd save about 1% if I calculated correctly.
Also, from those numbers above, if the entire US would seize CO2 emissions then you'd save the world 17%.

It's not gonna happen. You're gonna have a hard time getting countries like India to stop polluting. And we need to start with the large emitters first. Shipping/transportation, etc.
EVs aren't the answer. I was at the dealer yesterday and the service manager told me that a Taycan battery replacement costs $70,000. No one is going to do that, so now you have a car that will end up getting destroyed. How is that done? And what's the carbon footprint?

M3Inline6

Well stated.

The battery disposal issue is huge and not one that those pushing EV’s have thought through to a logical conclusion (….and they rarely ever do; the decisions and subsequent implementations are knee jerk and “feel good”).

nyca

Solar is fine but it can't be used at scale in many parts of the country - its really best for people in the sunbelt who own private standalone homes. And you need battery storage at home to really make it effective. What about everybody else in the country? Solar is also a "dead" technology in that the efficiency of the cell has not been significantly improved in decades, which is why the panels are all commodity items now - built in China.

jmrichards

The problem with comments like this is that they come from upper middle/upper class homeowners who think they know what is best for everyone else. It is a classic wealthy liberal trait. Think John Kerry and Al Gore. Their carbon footprints are larger than some small countries, yet they lecture all of us hoi polloi on how to live our lives. Most Americans don't own a home, can't afford solar and overpriced EV's and are basically trying to put food on the table and keep a roof over their families' heads. It's time for voters to become educated and get rid of rich liberals like Gavin Newsom before they seriously damage our economy.

detansinn

CO2 break-even for manufacturing of a typical EV happens at around 25-30k miles -- that's when the reduction in emissions offsets the production.
Taycan production is carbon neutral. So, a Taycan doesn't even need to hit that mark.
Whereas an EV has offset its production in a year or two of driving, an internal combustion vehicle keeps on polluting forever.

EV batteries have robust thermal management -- quite unlike a phone battery and virtually every other consumer device battery.
As already demonstrated by aging high mileage EVs, these batteries go on for a very long time. If/when they do eventually need to be replaced, the materials can be recycled.

Here's an example with 430k miles on the original battery.

With regards to that Taycan battery replacement costs, these batteries have an 8 year/100k mile warranty in the US -- every EV does, it's the law. So, no one is paying that $70k figure.
I put 25k miles on my Taycan in 8 months. I put 24k miles on my F150 Lightning in one year -- saved me $6k in gas compared to a gas powered F150. There's nothing to fail. No oil to be changed. No spark plugs to replace. These vehicles basically have no costly maintenance and nothing to break.

Between cars and motorcycles, I've got more gas powered vehicles in the garage than the average bear. I fully appreciate those experiences AND appreciate EVs. These aren't mutually exclusive things.

For the anti-EV sudden environmentalist types, you might want to research how that gasoline is made and the people that enrich themselves off of your dependency.😜

Naturally, it's utterly pointless to keep responding, because for some, gasoline is practically a religious belief and I don't expect to convince you that you're worshipping a false idol. As you're watching the numbers go by at the pump and paying whatever they feel like charging you that day, you can think of it as your contribution to the "church". LOL

silversurfer6

I am not sure how solar is handled in the US but in EU in some countries it makes sense:

i.e You pay 5-10k for the panels, inverter and system and then you can sell the production back to the supplier i.e your bill becomes minimal- ROI is sometimes as low as 2-3 years so it does make sense especially in countries where electricity costs 0.3-0.4 per kWh.

It gets more complicated with a battery since you are adding another 10k

detansinn

I live in Pennsylvania. We're not the sunbelt.
My QCell panels are made in the USA, in Georgia to be exact.
The efficiency leaps in recent years are substantial -- mine are more efficient than the neighbors panels just installed a couple years ago.
Thanks to net metering, you don't need batteries to "really make it effective". You're only paying for the difference between what you take from the grid and put back into the grid.

With a mix of clouds and sunshine, we've made over 500kWh just this week. Yes, they even work on cloudy and rainy days -- less power, but you're always making power. With the A/C running and 3 EVs charged, our last electric bill was less than $50 and this month, we're trending for a bill credit. Yes, our electric bill will be negative, in July, with the A/C on full blast. Oh, and we're not paying for gasoline for the daily drivers.

ROI for our install was targeted for 6-10 years and we're trending to 6, after that the system has paid for itself and it's all sugar. The 30% tax credit is a no brainer. We also get SREC payments for each 1mW that we generate.

Bluehighways

This our experience almost exactly. The only difference is that because our utility SDG&E charges such high rates our ROI was last March on a system installed three years prior.
I grew up just south of detansinn right about where PA/MD & DEL all come together in the southeast corner of Pennsylvania. My memories rarely involve seriously overcast inclement weather for more than two or three days at a time. Plenty of sunshine to support a home solar system.