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IIt now drives like other diesels in the market and I don't mind changing the way I drive this car now for $10K
If that is the case, most likely a lot of us would not have bought the CD new at $70K+. It was because it felt better than the other diesels in the market at that time.
Would you have bought it new if the salesperson told you: "You know, it may not drive as good in a year or two, but don't worry we'll give you back $10K"
I forgot the exact words of the settlement, but I believe it says the fix should not affect "driveability" of the car. The way I see it now, it does
I don't understand the amount of "grass is greener" whining here. A comparable used CS trades at a lower price point compared to a CD today without even taking into consideration of the $10K from VW and Bosch. You have been made more than whole on all of this. Take your chances with a transfer case and vario cam bolts that comes with CS/turbos. Where and what is the "regret?"
I drive my CD differently after the fix in that my foot is holding deeper in the accelerator pedal than before. Gearbox holds low gears longer before so you need to manual shift to feel like the way it drives before. It now drives like other diesels in the market and I don't mind changing the way I drive this car now for $10K
You are absolutely confirming it is not the same as before. It is not whining. We bought a Porsche. That is why many of us didn't consider the base Cayenne. Nothing we can really do but to hold out for as long as possible. If I feel the need to collect the other half of my settlement, I'll hold my nose and get it done. Just to reiterate, on one section of my test drive, the difference was night and day. If I had driven that car on a test drive prior to purchase, no doubt it would not have wound up in my garage.
If that is the case, most likely a lot of us would not have bought the CD new at $70K+. It was because it felt better than the other diesels in the market at that time.
Would you have bought it new if the salesperson told you: "You know, it may not drive as good in a year or two, but don't worry we'll give you back $10K"
I forgot the exact words of the settlement, but I believe it says the fix should not affect "driveability" of the car. The way I see it now, it does
Edit: Found correct wording (see picture)
I dunno. Current sales of "new" '15 and '16 fixed diesels are selling well. While the fixed version does not perform as before, it is still the better diesel SUV. It is just not heads above..
Originally Posted by PJ Cayenne
You are absolutely confirming it is not the same as before. It is not whining. We bought a Porsche. That is why many of us didn't consider the base Cayenne. Nothing we can really do but to hold out for as long as possible. If I feel the need to collect the other half of my settlement, I'll hold my nose and get it done. Just to reiterate, on one section of my test drive, the difference was night and day. If I had driven that car on a test drive prior to purchase, no doubt it would not have wound up in my garage.
I have only turbo cars in the family for about 5 years now and have gotten used to adjust driving them. The biggest difference in fixed CD and pre fix CD is that boost comes on a bit later and not as hard. This is probably to keep a higher AFR, lower NOx and keep cat burning at higher temps. Gearbox remap can be overridden manual upshifts.
The fixed diesels is still much better than the base and would argue that it performs better than the CS. Still slots behind the Cayenne Turbo in the line up but has dropped a notch as expected. If Blue Spark sort its tune out, then adding it will be easy and undetectable while bringing drivability back.
The whining comment made me laugh and is not helpful. I guarantee no one would take $30K (triple the price and triple the money back) for a GT3 with a "Fixed" power delivery and transmission... The long and short is the vehicle is different now and the $10K was not worth it to me which is the point of this thread of how the Diesel issue affects each of us. If you like your "fixed" Cayenne more power to you or is that less power ;-)
The whining comment made me laugh and is not helpful. I guarantee no one would take $30K (triple the price and triple the money back) for a GT3 with a "Fixed" power delivery and transmission... The long and short is the vehicle is different now and the $10K was not worth it to me which is the point of this thread of how the Diesel issue affects each of us. If you like your "fixed" Cayenne more power to you or is that less power ;-)
Name one diesel SUV out in the market that performs better than the fixed CD today. As for the GT3 comment, it is apparent you don't know the brand well. GT3s have always been lower in hp compared to competition in the market. People don't buy GT3s for power only lol.
I dunno. Current sales of "new" '15 and '16 fixed diesels are selling well. While the fixed version does not perform as before, it is still the better diesel SUV. It is just not heads above.
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But they are heavily discounted to reflect that. New owners knew what they are getting. Pre fix was heads above and we paid a premium for it
Name one diesel SUV out in the market that performs better than the fixed CD today. As for the GT3 comment, it is apparent you don't know the brand well. GT3s have always been lower in hp compared to competition in the market. People don't buy GT3s for power only lol.
It was not about HP its about delivery of power which is all I really care about and as far as the brand comment again not helpful. I have significant track time in nearly all the GT cars made in the 15 years. So lets keep on point. We get it you like the fix and the 10K. I don't like how it drives or tows with the fix nor the lag. The point is if I had my choice I would never have done the fix and would happily give back the $ for the old CD.
Name one diesel SUV out in the market that performs better than the fixed CD today. As for the GT3 comment, it is apparent you don't know the brand well. GT3s have always been lower in hp compared to competition in the market. People don't buy GT3s for power only lol.
If the trend continues or can't be reversed on mine, I'd say that if it were this way in 2013-2014 when we were looking, we'd have ended up in the BMW X5d or possibly the M320 Bluetec (since it was for my wife and she had an E320 at the time) because they performed better... or at least more predictable.
The delay in the power coming back on is really worrisome now and truly may be a safety issue, especially if it gets any worse. Rolled up to a red light tonight that turned green before I got to the stop point. As I pressed the accelerator - and waited for the power to come back - I thought, "this what the old non-turbo diesels must have felt like!" and then that my 2003 Cummins Ram had better low speed, roll-on acceleration (but admittedly, it's a manual, so I control the transmission shifting).
Since the new programming (or some flaw) keeps the RPM at just about 1100 under pretty much all in town driving, the "get up and go" just isn't there. Even trying to have a bit of fun at ~40mph and trying to apex a corner, the power won't come on until well after the apex.
If the trend continues or can't be reversed on mine, I'd say that if it were this way in 2013-2014 when we were looking, we'd have ended up in the BMW X5d or possibly the M320 Bluetec (since it was for my wife and she had an E320 at the time) because they performed better... or at least more predictable.
The delay in the power coming back on is really worrisome now and truly may be a safety issue, especially if it gets any worse. Rolled up to a red light tonight that turned green before I got to the stop point. As I pressed the accelerator - and waited for the power to come back - I thought, "this what the old non-turbo diesels must have felt like!" and then that my 2003 Cummins Ram had better low speed, roll-on acceleration (but admittedly, it's a manual, so I control the transmission shifting).
Since the new programming (or some flaw) keeps the RPM at just about 1100 under pretty much all in town driving, the "get up and go" just isn't there. Even trying to have a bit of fun at ~40mph and trying to apex a corner, the power won't come on until well after the apex.
Exactly. I hope this discussion helps current owners make the right choice for themselves on the updates. I have had to change my driving style to be much more proactive almost as much as when hauling Bobcats with a Kodiak to Job sites in a different life (I have my CDL). Towing the snowmobiles yesterday to put them to bed for the season the milage (with a tailwind) on a mostly level drive of just under 17 when I used to always get 20 to 21 with winter diesel. Even with our ski boat in the summer which is about 4000 lbs. & no tower I would see 20 to 21.
How is 15% from MSRP for a two year old car that one could get 8-9% back in 2015 a heavy discount?
I feel for the guys that now have a CD that they feel is a real POS post-fix. That has to scuk and scuk pretty badly.
I read about the unhappiness and disappointment and think, 'Wow, I'm sure glad that that did not happen to my 2016 CD.'
I'm one of the lucky ones that post-fix, I notice no difference. The CD tows my new 3,500lb trailer perfectly, new Electric brakes and Prodigy P3 controller working to slow the load down, easy-peasy. I get 15 mpg towing and saw up to 22 mpg on 30-45 mph roads. It is highway that lowers the MPG.
Then, when empty and an average of 72 mph, I see 29 mpg and when pushed to an average 77mph, got 27 mpg-still nigh-on incredible. Power is all there, just an awesome truck that can still tow up to 7,700 lbs and tow it very well. If I test drove my truck I'd buy it again as there is nothing else like it out there.
The great thing is that now that the trucks have been approved for resale, there are a lot more of them available, used with an average price of about $60K so prices are still holding up.
How is 15% from MSRP for a two year old car that one could get 8-9% back in 2015 a heavy discount?
Would you have bought it at $75K+ in 2013-14 if it felt the same as the BMW, Mercedes or Jeep?
Granted there are some new 15-16 buyers who really wanted a CD and were annoyed at the stop sale. But I bet the majority would not have considered a fixed 15-16 CD but for the discount (I am going to remove the word heavy). Again, my point is that current new buyers knew what they are getting. Owners of 13-14-early 15 CD know how good the pre-fix is. We are basically given $10K to go away while everyone is happy to pocket their $$$$$$ of money (the EPA, CARB, states, "our" lawyers)
03-25-2018, 01:41 PM
