r553

I live in FL and plan to get my CD fixed. My belief is the second Gen cars are fairly close to meeting the original requirements and anticipate increased DEF consumption.

skiahh

Which will kill the extended warranty we got.

But after it expires, absolutely! That'll give the tuners the chance to write something that works from the fixed baseline, too.

chsu74

I use cetane booster consistently because the engine sound quieter in the GL by a fairly wide margin. I also did not put it in the CD in the beginning but then started adding and there was improvement in the way engine operates.

I believe cetane works like octane level with gasoline. It does not improve mpg but allows the motor to operate smoother and higher within the design spec...

mdrobc1213

I don't think that will be the case in the end. That would leave Porsche open to more EPA and govt fodder. More than likely you guys won't get to have it both ways buy back and/or cash and then just say no to the fix. Knowing Porsche and the govt and the overall cost of all this...they'll likely make one or the other binding...you wait the other shoe has yet to drop!
As expected..what I see likely happening is Porsche will
1) Fix all the currently inventoried Cayenne Diesels now prior to sale to any US market. That way they can't be accused of continually violating the agreement and putting broken cars out on the market.
2) If you take either cash/payment; then you've entered your vote in the affirmative and have thus given Porsche the right to flash/fix/recode your car whether you want the fix and any degraded performance or not! Either that or you trade the car back to them...the devil will be in the details as you call it but very unlikely you'll get to take the money and run so to speak.
3) The specific state agencies (WA/CA and a few others in particular) will weigh in and not allow a non modified vehicle to be registered or emissions compliant. They can check and probably likely by now have the same database of VINs as does VW...so at some point a local decision may be put in place by these municipalities to prevent unfixed cars on the road...they'll call doing it for the "public good" but the case law is pretty clear that public safety (i.e. emissions hazards etc) will prevail in any legal challenge. Also doubt most owners will have the resources to stand up to the state or federal govt to keep their cars unfixed in a lawsuit if it comes to that and VW will stand on the side claiming they're ready to fix vehicles and agree with the guidelines of the settlement...its the customers who are being non-compliant at that point and thus won't likely be lets say cooperative in the favor of those who want to keep their CD's as is.
4) I can see various dealers likely putting a policy in place to flash/fix any vehicles if VW/Porsche puts out a service bulliten...especially if any liability for not doing so may have any chance of falling on them. They'll want to comply vs your wishes to keep the vehicle as is and most willl know you're already on the hook for any maintenance and such to them due to the nature of the extended warranty and specific knowledge on the vehicle from Porsche and by way of the PWITS tester and database back at Porsche AG that will hold all updates and info regarding the model.

Just my thoughts..but don't see this turning our rosy with folks making a profit or tons of cash/value gained on these cars.

TAch Miami

I didn’t know about the differences in diesel when I had my GL but use a cetane booster in the CD. Yes, it's not about the mileage. From some cetane booster web site:

“Diesel fuels with a cetane number lower than minimum engine requirements can cause rough engine operation. They are more difficult to start, expecially in cold weather or at high altitudes. They accelerate lube oil sludge formation. Many low cetane fuels increase engine deposits resulting in more smoke, increased exhaust emissions and greater engine wear.”

Also, all the grief about reduced MPGs is irrelevant to me. Diesel is currently $0.25/gal cheaper locally than premium at my station. That amounts to a $6.50 savings per 26 gal tank. My same configuration for a base and the diesel came out to be $3900 more to get the CD or 600 fills. Taking the EPA combined rating of 23 mpg, range is just over 600 miles per tank. With these numbers it would take 360,000 miles for me to have any cost savings with the diesel over the base and I bought it when diesel cost more than premium.

If any one is concerned about loss of hp and torque, get something that works and is removable, go here: https://www.tdi-tuning.co.uk/


___________________
2014 991 TT
2013 958 CD

gnat

Actually it is part of the settlement that the court has preliminarily accepted that stipulates taking the first 50% and then not applying the fix is possible. It even goes further to state that they are legally bound to NOT install the fix on any cars where the owner has opted to skip it.

Now what I expect is that until 64,001 vehicles have had the fix applied VAG will be making the hard sell to convince us to do it. They have some serious penalties if they don't get to the 80% mark.

The only thing that can change it at this point is if the class members (us) object to the agreement in a manner that the judge agrees and sends them back to the drawing board.

skiahh

FIFY.

Remember, ~20,000 are under a different program, so there's about 59,000 of us under the "Repair Fix". 80% of that is 47,200.

stronbl

For those that are interested, the FTC 2nd Partial Proposed Order along with the DOJ 2nd Consent Degree with appendices are the defining legal documents (assuming final approval by the Court). If an issue or item is not covered in the FTC or DOJ documents, but is covered in the Amended 3.0L Settlement Agreement and/or CARB 2nd Consent Decree then it (they) will prevail. Why this is important is because unlike the 2.0L case where buyback was the settlement emphasis, the 3.0L case is an emission compliant repair settlement emphasis. The FTC and DOJ documents set forth the compensation system and an emissions compliant repair order and how it will be tested and verified to be compliant (both Gen 1 and Gen 2). This is also mimicked in the Amended 3.0L Settlement Agreement. The Amended 3.0L settlement Agreement and Release sets forth the procedure and program by which (i.e. how) class members can participate and be compensated.

If the final approval of the 3.0L case follows the 2.0L case there will be very, very few changes, if any, to the Amended 3.0L Settlement Agreement and virtually no changes to the FTC 2nd Partial Order and DOJ 2nd Consent Decree. The Court will of course listen to individual voices, but essentially having all parties in agreement carries tremendous weight toward a final and approved resolution.

Happy reading .

gnat

Has that been clarified? I would think it would be the full number as any unreturned Gen 1s would impact their liability as well.

If there has been clarification since the Gen1s were separated out, I've missed it.

JRoach

Hey gang, I'm confused by what I'm reading here vs the statement that was emailed to me. For my case, I interpret the restitution as: $3,596.74 (repair) + 10% of the vehicle’s September 2015 Clean Retail Value. In the same email it references the Clean Retail Value:

2015 Porsche Cayenne
$61,089 Clean Retail Value
$58,251 Clean Trade Value

Question: Is this for the base and no consideration for the extras?

The sticker price on our CD was about 98K.

People in this forum are talking about amounts in excess of 10k.

skiahh

For Repair, I don't think there's any adjustments for mileage or options.

Those only come into play if there's a Restitution Payment with or without a buyback option.

That's my interpretation, anyway.

skiahh

Hmmm, good point. The 80% could well be based on the full 3.0l class, not sub-divided.

TAch Miami

This is from one of the links in the email I just got. Options are mentioned if there is a buyback. The vehicle value includes the NADA options and there is a line for the non-NADA options not yet specified. There is a Bosch payment of $1500 in the latest Bosch court document.

perlfather

+1
Based on what I have seen and heard from the engineers - this is exactly what i expect as well. The chances of a buy back for the late 3l engines is very small.

stronbl

FYI - minor comment to the above.

See page 16 of the DOJ 2nd Partial Consent decree (i.e. IV Partial Injunctive Relief, sections 10 & 11 and DOJ Appendix A&B), the target is 85% for each class separately, Gen 1 and Gen 2, respective.