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There is so much history and stories behind 1973 RS cars. People still pay 7 figures for them.
These cars were all meant to be driven and enjoyed, things happen.
No one will care about paintwork and DME reports on these cars at some point.
yes at some point many years down the road, DMEs and paintwork won't matter as much on most 997 GT cars (outside of super low mileage collector quality cars), but we are not there yet today or upcoming few years
yes at some point many years down the road, DMEs and paintwork won't matter as much on most 997 GT cars (outside of super low mileage collector quality cars), but we are not there yet today or upcoming few years
6 years ago when shopping for my first GT3 I was superficially contemplating between two 8k mile perfect .2 PCCB + leather (black vs white) for $115k. The deciding factors came down to little stuff like lights and carbon…DME wasnt even discussed. They were both about the same price so none of the - black doesn’t sell- mumbo jumbo had even entered my brain.
Fast forward a few years I actually figured out owning a GT3 has nothing to do with how new I can keep it. Everyone has a friend with a safe full of guns but can’t hit a tin can at 50 yards… cool dude
So when all the crazies with money started coming out of the woodwork giving me anxiety around driving my - perfect- cosmetic spec GT3 I traded it for a not so perfect drivers spec RS.
It sucks to have to contemplate if THIS car will go down or up in value…but after a few years that will fade like it did me and many members here. You might then ask why we are even still active in this thread??? Cause we want everyone to experience what we have.
I'd be curious to see what this sells for. Super low spec and 60k miles but it does look to be in great shape. If it sells for anywhere near 250, it would be a great case for everyone to just drive their cars.
Certainly appreciate a previous owner on the silver RS coming out and disclosing the past use/history of the car. I think that there is a buyer for every car, no matter how much track time or how pristine a given car is, I know someone that would be interested in it.
My issue in general with the buying and selling process of cars is how little transparency there is with the majority of dealers and this is not targeted at anyone in particular, so please don't read it as such. When I see pics on a BAT auction, I don't want to see the glamour shots. I know what press photos (from the manufacturer) look like and I've seen enough well done pics online of nearly every car. I know what a 997 GT3 looks like. I want to see every angle of the car and I want the flaws pointed out to me. This is incredibly important. I actually think that psychologically it brings out more faith in us as buyers. For instance, if you show me the smallest of flaws in the paint, why would I think you're hiding anything regarding mechanicals or other cosmetic flaws? I wouldn't think that because you (as the seller) are showing the smallest of imperfections, so naturally I'd assume you're going to point out the large imperfections or issues too. Also, if you're a seller and you have access to a lift to get proper underbody pics, please provide them. I get that not every seller in their garage has that ability (I don't), but for those that have a two post or four post lift, it is incredibly useful to see what the underside looks like as it tells the story of the car.
Now, there are totally things that I understand get past any seller, especially a dealer. For instance, if you have some nuanced issue such as "when the car gets over X temperature on a 100F day, when on track in third gear, it sometimes does Y", ok, I definitely don't expect a selling dealer to know that because they're probably not using their inventory on track, so that may only be found out as a buyer when using it as such and you can't blame the dealer for that. As a private seller, I'd appreciate that it's disclosed, but there are unique traits to all of these cars and I understand if you experienced that one time, you may not even remember or disclose it. We can also talk about paintwork on plastic/bumpers. It is not true that you can't meter a plastic bumper, you can, you just need a Defelsko Positetctor 200. They do come up for sale on eBay occasionally for much less than the retail price. Now, I don't expect most sellers to have one, very quality paintwork on bumpers is not easy to spot and even us nutty Porsche owners seem to agree that bumpers are off limits when talking about paintwork.
The sellers that come out and say "this car has had paintwork" and "this car has these flaws" please keep doing so. They know who they are and it is so appreciated in the community. The ones that are not disclosing problems upfront, I think it would be a service to yourself and the community (not just Porsche, but car community) to state a cars issues upfront. Don't make people call and then find out during a PPI that a car has major issues if you already know about them. I understand that a dealer can't know everything, especially high volume dealers, but if you know of an issue, make it known to others too. For instance, there was a .2RS for sale last year and I found out that it had a motor replacement. In the description there was no mention of the car having a motor replacement and we're talking about an upper $200k car. Now, I would hope that if you got into conversations and were moving along, that info may come out, but I also could see it being kept quiet. I also could see them not knowing about it, if you don't dig deep into some of these cars regarding the history or documentation, then you probably won't know and in many ways ignorance is bliss. You'll probably enjoy your car more not obsessing over these details.
My closing thought is when selling (or buying for that matter), transact in the way you'd want to be treated. As someone that has been screwed on car deals (undisclosed issues that seller knew about) when I really could not afford to take a loss, yet took a loss and it was on a dream car, it is really a horrible position to be in. We're talking a very large Porsche dealer that did this and I've documented the situation without naming the dealers name here. You never know who you're screwing over, what point of life they're in, how much of a stretch they're taking to make this happen or how picky they are. I forget who said it, but full disclosure is the best disclosure.
At Boxster (and others), appreciate your insight and I think you might own my prior .2 GT3RS and happy to give you any background. As far as my comments on BaT, I was somewhat surprised that several people were offended and one person texted me yesterday and said "I killed the auction". Say what? Ryan has a great reputation but missed or did not share quite a few basic items (graphics color change, RMS leak, date-coded tires, 1st gear, x-pipe, front pan dent, windshield replacement, etc). If you claim that your technicians are excellent with 100 years of experience and can diagnose a car to the same or better level than prior owners, then all of this should have been identified. Oh, and yes, the clutch is somewhat subjective, but I have owned a lot of GT cars and the release point has increased over the last couple of years and wasn't grabbing like it did in my other cars.
Anyway, I don't think any of these items were deal breakers for potential buyers, but as you and others have stated, if Ryan disclosed these issues upfront (versus me), he would have faired a lot better as savvy buyers are wondering "what else was missed, or not disclosed?". He should take a page out of Doug at Switchars, Paul at Autokennel, Wob and 911R's handbook. That said, I think A LOT of buyers are simply into cosmetics and do not have the same level of knowledge as us Rennlist Hooligans. That comment about the "Rennlist guys" interjecting was entertaining. So, you would rather pay $250K for the car and then figure all this $hit out after the fact? "I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a track weapon and stand the post."
As far as the PCCB's go, they were off the car when I bought it from AutoKennel. They do not look great, but I did have them inspected and they were within spec. The "little circles" are still showing and forgot the other indications, but were fine.
The statement about me making a "blatant assumption" regarding how the dent occurred was head-scratching. But then he instantly made a "blatant assumption" that the car only had 1,000 miles of track time and that he drove the car harder than I ever could.
Anyway, I feel for dealers and private parties when trying to sell on BaT as it is not for the feint of heart and the reason why I had my friend sell it for me. I thought the buyer was a private party, but it turns out he was a broker which he did not disclose. I don't have an issue with brokers or flippers as every car dealership is essentially a flipper and I priced it accordingly.
So, my attempt to avoid dealing with the BaT drama didn't pan out so well! But hopefully, the real bidders appreciated it.
Again, I appreciate everyone's feedback, support and perspective.
At Boxster (and others), appreciate your insight and I think you might own my prior .2 GT3RS and happy to give you any background. As far as my comments on BaT, I was somewhat surprised that several people were offended and one person texted me yesterday and said "I killed the auction". Say what? Ryan has a great reputation but missed or did not share quite a few basic items (graphics color change, RMS leak, date-coded tires, 1st gear, x-pipe, front pan dent, windshield replacement, etc). If you claim that your technicians are excellent with 100 years of experience and can diagnose a car to the same or better level than prior owners, then all of this should have been identified. Oh, and yes, the clutch is somewhat subjective, but I have owned a lot of GT cars and the release point has increased over the last couple of years and wasn't grabbing like it did in my other cars.
Anyway, I don't think any of these items were deal breakers for potential buyers, but as you and others have stated, if Ryan disclosed these issues upfront (versus me), he would have faired a lot better as savvy buyers are wondering "what else was missed, or not disclosed?". He should take a page out of Doug at Switchars, Paul at Autokennel, Wob and 911R's handbook. That said, I think A LOT of buyers are simply into cosmetics and do not have the same level of knowledge as us Rennlist Hooligans. That comment about the "Rennlist guys" interjecting was entertaining. So, you would rather pay $250K for the car and then figure all this $hit out after the fact? "I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a track weapon and stand the post."
As far as the PCCB's go, they were off the car when I bought it from AutoKennel. They do not look great, but I did have them inspected and they were within spec. The "little circles" are still showing and forgot the other indications, but were fine.
The statement about me making a "blatant assumption" regarding how the dent occurred was head-scratching. But then he instantly made a "blatant assumption" that the car only had 1,000 miles of track time and that he drove the car harder than I ever could.
Anyway, I feel for dealers and private parties when trying to sell on BaT as it is not for the feint of heart and the reason why I had my friend sell it for me. I thought the buyer was a private party, but it turns out he was a broker which he did not disclose. I don't have an issue with brokers or flippers as every car dealership is essentially a flipper and I priced it accordingly.
So, my attempt to avoid dealing with the BaT drama didn't pan out so well! But hopefully, the real bidders appreciated it.
Again, I appreciate everyone's feedback, support and perspective.
Only thing I'll add Kevin is I don't own your .2RS, but if you've ever had a .1 GT3 (not RS), there's a chance I own that.
Again, I appreciate everyone's feedback, support and perspective.
There wasn’t a person in the room serious about that car, I mean my shill at 200k was prob more serious than the other guys.
Orange graphics on silver is a specific taste, so I would have cleaned it up back to new and just put it back up, which is what RF should do. Its not a bad thing to train dealers to check RL history before putting up their cars
That's why I posted for the members to start studying. I thought by today RFM would have posted pictures and a description but it appears that the cards on this car will be held close to the chest. This car will have to go to a very particular buyer. One that doesn't know his head from his a**. I think everyone should keep their eye on this car as it might end up being a floater bouncing from dealership to dealership. If this car was at Switch, it would have a full online description and be priced accordingly. Gotta say, you guys always praise Doug and I have absolutely no reason to praise any car dealer, but you members just may have something.
Originally Posted by JS
There is so much history and stories behind 1973 RS cars. People still pay 7 figures for them.
These cars were all meant to be driven and enjoyed, things happen.
No one will care about paintwork and DME reports on these cars at some point.
Fully agree but we will all be dead by then. I need my money now!
I'd be curious to see what this sells for. Super low spec and 60k miles but it does look to be in great shape. If it sells for anywhere near 250, it would be a great case for everyone to just drive their cars.
Is it just me or does it look like that bumper and right fender color is different than the hood, which looks original with the little chips all over the place.
Originally Posted by kfitzpat9
At Boxster (and others), appreciate your insight and I think you might own my prior .2 GT3RS and happy to give you any background. As far as my comments on BaT, I was somewhat surprised that several people were offended and one person texted me yesterday and said "I killed the auction". Say what? Ryan has a great reputation but missed or did not share quite a few basic items (graphics color change, RMS leak, date-coded tires, 1st gear, x-pipe, front pan dent, windshield replacement, etc). If you claim that your technicians are excellent with 100 years of experience and can diagnose a car to the same or better level than prior owners, then all of this should have been identified. Oh, and yes, the clutch is somewhat subjective, but I have owned a lot of GT cars and the release point has increased over the last couple of years and wasn't grabbing like it did in my other cars.
Anyway, I don't think any of these items were deal breakers for potential buyers, but as you and others have stated, if Ryan disclosed these issues upfront (versus me), he would have faired a lot better as savvy buyers are wondering "what else was missed, or not disclosed?". He should take a page out of Doug at Switchars, Paul at Autokennel, Wob and 911R's handbook. That said, I think A LOT of buyers are simply into cosmetics and do not have the same level of knowledge as us Rennlist Hooligans. That comment about the "Rennlist guys" interjecting was entertaining. So, you would rather pay $250K for the car and then figure all this $hit out after the fact? "I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a track weapon and stand the post."
As far as the PCCB's go, they were off the car when I bought it from AutoKennel. They do not look great, but I did have them inspected and they were within spec. The "little circles" are still showing and forgot the other indications, but were fine.
The statement about me making a "blatant assumption" regarding how the dent occurred was head-scratching. But then he instantly made a "blatant assumption" that the car only had 1,000 miles of track time and that he drove the car harder than I ever could.
Anyway, I feel for dealers and private parties when trying to sell on BaT as it is not for the feint of heart and the reason why I had my friend sell it for me. I thought the buyer was a private party, but it turns out he was a broker which he did not disclose. I don't have an issue with brokers or flippers as every car dealership is essentially a flipper and I priced it accordingly.
So, my attempt to avoid dealing with the BaT drama didn't pan out so well! But hopefully, the real bidders appreciated it.
Again, I appreciate everyone's feedback, support and perspective.
You killed that auction and you should be shot for that. You know who kills that auction, RFM killed that auction. An auction that was doomed from the start. In my eyes there are three types of comments and they usually open in this order:
1. G.O.A.T comments - worthless for an auction where the bidder already knows about the car
2. Peanut gallery comments - worthless but inevitable and sometimes entertaining while the bidding progresses.
3. Value added comments. These are comments from experts on the marque being sold, previous owners with knowledge and current owners who constantly comb over their own vehicles gaining an understanding about every little thing on the car. The goal of this last group is not to kill an auction. It is to provide as much pertinent information to the bidding audience so they can make the best decision possible. In the case of GT3's we want our future family members to join this group, participate in the antics and honestly be happy with their purchase knowing that they got a fair deal. There is nothing worse than being taken. Especially when you're dropping close to a quarter million dollars.
So RFM and anyone else who doesn't like what I'm spitting out, it's an easy fix. Be transparent in the vehicles you sell. Answer the viewer's questions with honest straightforward facts. Vague, longwinded, excuse riddled answers don't bode well for anyone. Ok, Rant off.
I'd be curious to see what this sells for. Super low spec and 60k miles but it does look to be in great shape. If it sells for anywhere near 250, it would be a great case for everyone to just drive their cars.
I was looking at this car last year in June. Zweck was transparent on the car having paint work. No accidents but the front didn't have ppf, I believe the fenders and hood have been painted iirc.
With some digging I was able to find that they paid 198k for the car and have been trying to sell it for 259k since June of 2023.
Is it just me or does it look like that bumper and right fender color is different than the hood, which looks original with the little chips all over the place.
I noticed this also but without more information it’s hard for me to comment, my hood and fenders are older PPF than my bumper so there is a color difference… easy to tell since mine is white but wonder how that could affect grey
The front right fender graphic is gone where it was on on the prior sale. Whole car is PPF'd. Edit: All the graphics are gone. However when they were on the car they certainly couldn't be original as evidenced by this!
Front bumper and wings repainted. What do they mean by the wings? Fenders?
The Grey Black paintwork is reported to be in excellent condition given the car’s usage, though the seller notes that the front bumper and wings have been resprayed due to stone chips. There are also minor stone chips on the bonnet.
Inside, the cabin is presented in excellent order. There is slight discolouration on the seat belt release buttons, very minor discolouration on the driver’s seat belt, a scratch on the glove box lock trim, and mild creasing on the driver’s seat bolsters.
The seller is not aware of any mechanical or electrical faults, and they state that there are no warning lights showing on the dashboard.
SERVICE HISTORY
This 911 GT3 RS’ most recent maintenance was carried out at around 93,000 Kms by Renn Porsche, which consisted of the exhaust system being fully powder coated, a new ATI pulley and belts fitted, the 4.0 RS steering wheel fitted, a new gear gaiter, centre console, and all four wheels powder coated, as well as new engine oil and filters, spark plugs, coil packs, and Endless brake pads installed.
Other notable maintenance includes a new front bumper lip being fitted, new decals, Alcantara armrests, seat belt covers, plus a 4.0 RS flywheel and clutch installed.
Last edited by RAudi Driver; 01-28-2024 at 09:27 PM.
I heard him say on his social media it was his personal car and wasn’t for sale. I guess it just was for the right price. Not the first car he said wouldn’t be sold, but sold not long after saying that.
Agree, it's happened on several cars now.
Remember, people want what they can't have.
The more you say it's not for sale, the more people will spend to have it.
01-28-2024 | 11:01 AM
