TrackToyz

Late braking is a really great technique...for making tactical passing maneuvers in w2w.

Slower in, faster out.

Especially in a FWD car.

Veloce Raptor

??? Where in this link is this info?

Yup. it really is!

IMO it is all about introducing much less drama into the chassis--in this case, front dive & rear lift--in order to keep the suspension more stable & to better maximize use of all 4 contact patches for more grip at turn in & earlier application of throttle.

ProCoach

Yes, the quest for balance in, through and out of the corner, achieved!

ProCoach

There is a way to measure this. Take a look at Combined G (or lateral+inline g (math) in R-K Comparo). THAT and the graphic friction circle is what will tell you... Of course, you have to calibrate the R-K accelerometers, first.

TrackToyz

Cut n' paste fail...

FIxt original post or click here

Veloce Raptor

Ah...he's in the wrong role for us...but it's a start.

paver

What does "on throttle with trailing throttle oversteer" mean?

ProCoach

It means finishing the corner on the gas, gets the front turned quicker!

paver

too quick or too much makes it push though right?

dcrooke

I see Jalopnik got hold of the famous red GT2 video .... the guy apparently borrowed the GoPro from a friend of a friend, who found it when he got the camera back and put it on YouTube for ****s and grins. It was quickly taken down from the other location after a protest, presumably for Mr Rich Idiot himself, so I'm glad to see it rescued and him used as an example to others.

I'm going to forward the Jalopnik link to Mark with a suggestion that he review how he interviewed this guy to figure out how he sneaked past the filter.

Punch line: this was one of the (allegedly) ADVANCED run groups. I do not even really qualify for INTERMEDIATE which I was in, so you can imagine how fun it was for me, albeit most people in red were just dog slow / had novice issues with awareness, rather than actively stupid or *******-ish (the 60 year old guy with the Wolf single seater is the only one that springs to mind)

jenk12m

Vr, really helped back at mid ohio last year with balancing the car under braking and not standing on the brake pedal

NJ-GT

I really like this video, the overcooking T1 with desperate immediately after point-by, and the A-pillar grabbing to control a 997 GT2 skid is awesome.

Thanks to Axis for the link !!!

dcrooke

Reply from Mark - the red GT2 lost a tire at this point. If so, my counter is that Herr GT2 still made a number of newbie mistakes, which are on camera for all to see, including driving for half a lap without realising that he had a tire going down

I have semi-sarcastically asked Mark for an excuse from the *silver* GT2, which was:
1. in Yellow, which was likewise supposed to be an advanced run group, and
2. also failing to give point bys, thus holding up quicker people in slower cars, including (for the trifecta) ...
3. a Scion FR-S on street tires

In all seriousness, do you have to be a totally incompetent and oblivious driver to own a GT2? Is there a rule or something? Or is it that all Porsche owners who can even vaguely drive want the (presumably less expensive) GT3RS because it's more fun on the track?

I do not grok. My humble $69k Nissan is essentially a deliberate copy of the 911 turbo PDK but with the engine moved to a more sensible location and while it does unfortunately attract the baseball cap crowd, real car nerds still buy GT-Rs in droves as well, and when driven correctly the car is as fast as (irony) a 911 GT2RS

85Gold

Which Peter?? The Farmer doesn't listen to da Dawg he knows better

Saw many people try and carry way to much speed into 8 and then pinch turn 9 and kill their exit speed. One thing I learned early is the most important turns are the ones leading onto a straight as you carry that speed all the way.

Peter

dcrooke

When I was in college, I was a FWD guy because it was all I could afford, but the directional pull out of a corner is not to be sneezed at, even Ferrari is starting to figure it out

In a 4wd car at an HPDE were half the people are noobs don't know what mirrors are for, late braking down the inside is also a great way to get them to see you out of the side window as they look for their turn in point

A few of my "apex bombing" runs from COTA below .... I'm sure a few people will mistakenly perceive this as unsafe, but in fact I was braking at only 9/10ths and leaving enough margin to be able to come to a complete stop before the apex if necessary, and using a line so tight to the inside that it would be mathematically impossible for the car in front to lose it and hit me even after bouncing back of the armco (I am behind them at all times even when they go off camera). I had slicks so I could have executed clean passes on the ones on street tires even without their knowledge or cooperation, but it was a DE not a race, and I don't do that kind of stuff.

BTW, all of these videos are from ***Sunday afternoon*** so even 2.5 track days on the same track was not enough experience for some people who had claimed to have prior track experience to get out of their annoying novice habits. It's called a mirror, didn't you learn about them (street) driver's ed?

I'm not greedy, all I want is a point by ... you don't need to lift unless you're in something pretty quick, and I am happy to outbrake you if you'd prefer that, but I need to see that arm out the window. Pretty please?

There were a couple of actual senior citizens in Caterham / Westfield / Lotus-7 thingies, and while they were driving within their limits, they had their **** together and no-one was waiting for point bys off them.


1. BMW Z3 .... watch until T12, started the clip early so you could see me give a point by (for the folks reading this who still don't know what one is) and also what it looks like to be passed by a GTR, though you should all know that by now

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mi9f97xgo8&t=13m50s

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mglJu81tHIE&t=6m

2. Mazda Miata .... this was a newbie on their very first solo run, and so I can forgive a lot, but again, not the standard I was expecting. I know the instructor well, and I know he teaches well, and his student was one of the least traffic issues in red, but again I wasn't expecting newbies, rented spec Miatas or not.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mglJu81tHIE&t=6m50s

3. This old guy in the blue Shelby was a total novice. To his credit, he got pretty good with the point-bys on Saturday and Sunday, but he was driving at most at 6/10ths even then. Again, why? Seems like a huge waste to spend $850 to potter round without an instructor. How did he get into the event? At least my mistakes are obvious even to me and I can coach myself a bit, esp. with a loaner Aim Solo (thanks Roger!)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mglJu81tHIE&t=6m50s


Are my expectations simply too high? Is waiting 3-4 straights for a point-by the norm? I am getting sick fed up to the back teeth of driving on the track with people who don't have a 4x2 clue, and getting told by organizers that I don't belong in Intermediate / Advanced groups, and by others that I need to go racing instead. Apparently knowledge of how to drive a car reasonably quickly, situational awareness on the track and knowledge of the point by system are NOT prerequisites for Advanced, so I am at a loss to understand what is. I am taking my beater shopping car to HPDE's from now on until they let me in the non-muppet groups, but I'll probably be lapping M3's in that car too At least I'll be slower than most of the 911 GT3s

Don't get me wrong, the event was a blast, but it would have been a lot more fun if I could have run at pace for more than 1/4 of the total track time.