View Poll Results: Poll: Have you had bore scoring on your 997.1 or 997.2 engine?
Yes, 997.1 (05-08 MY)
143
14.50%
Yes, 997.2 (09-12 MY)
18
1.83%
No, 997.1 (05-08 MY)
524
53.14%
No, 997.2 (09-12 MY)
301
30.53%
Voters: 986. You may not vote on this poll
Poll: Scored cylinder failure for your 997, Y or N? tell us (yr, 997.1 or 997.2)
03-03-2021, 11:46 AM
#406
This is impossible to know but I'm curious about the owners of the cars that had bore scoring. Are they the owners of garage queens that do not get driven much, annual oil changes at best and idling the car for extended periods of time combined with short trips? All these are known contributors. I DD my car and there are many others that do, although that may be different in CO, but not impossible and unheard of. It's been proven many times that not treating a car like a car and more like a museum piece is in line with these and other issues. Not specific to Porsche. Just ask Ferrari owners about a belt and seal service with engine out after 3k miles over several years.
We are at a point where these cars are becoming more affordable to buy (but necessarily own) and the 3rd, 4th, 5th owners are the benefactors of the 1st or 2nd owner cars that didn't treat the car like a car.
We are at a point where these cars are becoming more affordable to buy (but necessarily own) and the 3rd, 4th, 5th owners are the benefactors of the 1st or 2nd owner cars that didn't treat the car like a car.
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plpete84 (03-03-2021)
03-03-2021, 12:55 PM
#408
While the observance of this condition across two different model engines (whose design and technology are different) appears even in my experience, I cannot attest to specifically WHY.
Like most of you, I have read what ever information I can get my hands on. I try to employ a healthy dose of skepticism, coupled with as much scientific method as is practical, to arrive at my own conclusions. One must question the motivation of a provider of information that has something to gain from dispersing it. A commonality that presents itself across the port injection and DFI engines appears to be (in some way faulty) fuel injectors.
Last edited by advrider1967; 03-03-2021 at 01:29 PM. Reason: additional info
03-03-2021, 06:59 PM
#409
If the claim of ethanol enhanced fuels, aggressive fuel detergent "packages", leaking injectors, too long on warm up cycle (cylinder washing with fuel) etc is to be believed, it would suggest that fuel additives that increase fuel lubricity would be a fine thing to use. Who knew a 997 would have to be treated like a 2 stroke? 
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Porschetech3 (03-07-2021)
03-03-2021, 07:36 PM
#410
Rennlist Member
In the case of PPI's the vehicle belongs to someone else at the time of inspection. If a potential buyer is savvy enough to ask me to check bores, they typically walk away from the car if I find it.
If the car is in the shop at the current owners behest, the path forward hinges directly on the severity of the scoring. As people have posted here, many of these cars with mild to significant scoring appear asymptomatic. No excessive oil consumption, no black tailpipe soot, and no ticking. Of course I have seen cars that sounded like the next time you started it may be its last, the owner had assumed it was "typical of a 911", and has been driving it like that for years.
What a particular owner does varies by their wallet thickness, the car in question and how they see Porsche ownership. I have yet to see someone with an early Cayman S fix anything- the repair cost is the value of the car. They drive the hell out of it, knowing they will sell it later, and (I presume) hope the next buyer is clueless as to possible issues.
911's are clearly a different matter as their values are far higher. True believers will budget and fix, increasing capacity as an unintended "upside". Owners who bought the car because of the little gold thing on the hood will often just trade it in at a dealer on another marque. Which, brings me to a rule: If you see a Porsche at a Ford dealer (as an example) dont even bother looking at it. Chances are near 100% its there for the aforementioned scenario.
If the car is in the shop at the current owners behest, the path forward hinges directly on the severity of the scoring. As people have posted here, many of these cars with mild to significant scoring appear asymptomatic. No excessive oil consumption, no black tailpipe soot, and no ticking. Of course I have seen cars that sounded like the next time you started it may be its last, the owner had assumed it was "typical of a 911", and has been driving it like that for years.
What a particular owner does varies by their wallet thickness, the car in question and how they see Porsche ownership. I have yet to see someone with an early Cayman S fix anything- the repair cost is the value of the car. They drive the hell out of it, knowing they will sell it later, and (I presume) hope the next buyer is clueless as to possible issues.
911's are clearly a different matter as their values are far higher. True believers will budget and fix, increasing capacity as an unintended "upside". Owners who bought the car because of the little gold thing on the hood will often just trade it in at a dealer on another marque. Which, brings me to a rule: If you see a Porsche at a Ford dealer (as an example) dont even bother looking at it. Chances are near 100% its there for the aforementioned scenario.
03-03-2021, 08:19 PM
#411
"That's what happen to me! My 2005 997.1 was traded in at a Lexus dealer. The car looked and drove excellent. I had the the Porsche dealer next door check out the car and do service. Having not known when the IMS bearing had been replaced, that's when we discovered the scoring on #6 cylinder. I have had the engine rebuilt! I had the funds to do it."
But did you really need to do it at that point (or ever for that matter)? Did you have mechanical symptoms, excessive oil consumptions? Have you had them scoped since - if so how do they look now?
Its kind of like COVID - several people close to me tested positive, yet no symptoms at all, not a big deal; whereas some people get it very bad to the point that it is fatal
But did you really need to do it at that point (or ever for that matter)? Did you have mechanical symptoms, excessive oil consumptions? Have you had them scoped since - if so how do they look now?
Its kind of like COVID - several people close to me tested positive, yet no symptoms at all, not a big deal; whereas some people get it very bad to the point that it is fatal
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stiffler199 (03-04-2021)
03-04-2021, 12:17 AM
#412
This thread is 5 years old and a sticky. Yet only 97 Checked yes for 997.1.
Your assessment of over 50% of models you see need rebuilds is a bit crazy.
Do you own a 997.1 or one of these engines?
so I’m to believe that most people on here are driving cars with bore scoring and these cars are bound for new tickers?
Your assessment of over 50% of models you see need rebuilds is a bit crazy.
Do you own a 997.1 or one of these engines?
so I’m to believe that most people on here are driving cars with bore scoring and these cars are bound for new tickers?
03-04-2021, 10:59 AM
#413
This thread is 5 years old and a sticky. Yet only 97 Checked yes for 997.1.
Your assessment of over 50% of models you see need rebuilds is a bit crazy.
Do you own a 997.1 or one of these engines?
so I’m to believe that most people on here are driving cars with bore scoring and these cars are bound for new tickers?
Your assessment of over 50% of models you see need rebuilds is a bit crazy.
Do you own a 997.1 or one of these engines?
so I’m to believe that most people on here are driving cars with bore scoring and these cars are bound for new tickers?
As mentioned, data collected from cars brought to me for PPI. So what does that mean?
1: Its being SOLD- we cannot know for sure WHY- perhaps the owner knows it has issues and is looking to pass them off.
2: The cars are in Colorado. While areas of the state have different seasonal weather, it is never the less, Colorado (year round ethanol fuel, min ALT 5,000ft etc).
97 people checked yes, which is 26% of the people with 997.1 who took this poll. The people taking this poll are forum members. How or why anyone would think that pool of people is at all representative of the total pool of cars out there is beyond me. NONE of my Porsche clients are forum members.
Search, and you will quickly finds tales of people looking for a 997 (.1 or .2) and having multiple cars inspected, finding bore issues, passing and then finally finding a car worth buying. If you pass on 3 cars, and buy the 4th, thats a 75% positivity rate (of the pool of cars for sale that one looked at).
Search the web in general, and you will quickly find similar assertions to mine from others who are far more respected, known, in the business of building engines etc.
It's called data, do with it what you want.
I currently own a 997.2 C2...drumroll....with bore scoring. Previous to that, a 987 S...with bore scoring.
Last edited by advrider1967; 03-04-2021 at 11:00 AM.
03-04-2021, 11:20 AM
#414
Three Wheelin'
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. All of these motors have bore scoring. But don’t freak out. Until it’s eating oil or slapping it’s going to be just fine.
Run a 3rd radiator, LTT and change your oil every 6 mo.
Run a 3rd radiator, LTT and change your oil every 6 mo.
Last edited by rtl5009; 03-04-2021 at 05:15 PM.
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advrider1967 (03-04-2021)
03-04-2021, 12:16 PM
#416
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Destin, Nashville, In a 458 Challenge
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In my observation, in my shop, yes.
While the observance of this condition across two different model engines (whose design and technology are different) appears even in my experience, I cannot attest to specifically WHY.
Like most of you, I have read what ever information I can get my hands on. I try to employ a healthy dose of skepticism, coupled with as much scientific method as is practical, to arrive at my own conclusions. One must question the motivation of a provider of information that has something to gain from dispersing it. A commonality that presents itself across the port injection and DFI engines appears to be (in some way faulty) fuel injectors.
While the observance of this condition across two different model engines (whose design and technology are different) appears even in my experience, I cannot attest to specifically WHY.
Like most of you, I have read what ever information I can get my hands on. I try to employ a healthy dose of skepticism, coupled with as much scientific method as is practical, to arrive at my own conclusions. One must question the motivation of a provider of information that has something to gain from dispersing it. A commonality that presents itself across the port injection and DFI engines appears to be (in some way faulty) fuel injectors.
This is NOT the experience or what shops I know of, including dealers that still do PPIs. All 4 have seen ZERO 997.2s with scoring EVER. All have seen failed engines and done engine replacements on the 997.1s and seen the .1s scored on PPIs. 997.2s across the board also have very low to no oil consumption issues which is not remotely the case with 997.1s . . . a very possible/probable correlation.
I agree about motivation of saying BS on the Net. There are a lot of nut jobs on the Net that can and do say anything and everything and some just appear out of nowhere. In reference to the people reporting above, I doubt those numbers are fudged for the most part.
03-04-2021, 12:22 PM
#417
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Lol, no. Nothing wrong with a little reality check. A guy that only posted in 944/951 board 10 years ago pops up and makes such claim out of the blue? Perhaps he is legit, perhaps not. Interesting, but matters little to me at the end of the day. My GTS is already sold, the 992 Turbo is almost here and I am moving to Bali to live 9 to 12 months out of the year in June!!!
03-04-2021, 04:38 PM
#418
Ive been a "mechanic" for 30 years. My shop specializes in tuning Mercedes Benz vehicles (Kleemann). We designed, manufactured and sold supercharger systems for MBZ M113 engines 3 years before MBZ did (1st unit sold in 2000). During all that time we have performed service, repair and modifications of VAG and Porsche vehicles. I dont see how the frequency of my postings, and where I make them has beans to do with anything, esp considering the following story:
The last 997 through the shop was sold by a P dealer who was quite proud to broadcast that the car had undergone extensive inspection and passed all sniff tests. Of course it had significant scoring on every hole, but ran asymptomatically. When quizzed as to how a P dealer missed what must be the 1st or 2nd biggest boogey man in watercooler Porsches the reply was nearly funny. They do not inspect bores, EVER, unless the car has a misfire complaint. By the time you have misfires from bore scoring, the ship has sailed, sunk and is now rotting on the floor of the ocean.
The last 997 through the shop was sold by a P dealer who was quite proud to broadcast that the car had undergone extensive inspection and passed all sniff tests. Of course it had significant scoring on every hole, but ran asymptomatically. When quizzed as to how a P dealer missed what must be the 1st or 2nd biggest boogey man in watercooler Porsches the reply was nearly funny. They do not inspect bores, EVER, unless the car has a misfire complaint. By the time you have misfires from bore scoring, the ship has sailed, sunk and is now rotting on the floor of the ocean.
03-04-2021, 04:41 PM
#419
Former Vendor
Ive been a "mechanic" for 30 years. My shop specializes in tuning Mercedes Benz vehicles (Kleemann). We designed, manufactured and sold supercharger systems for MBZ M113 engines 3 years before MBZ did (1st unit sold in 2000). During all that time we have performed service, repair and modifications of VAG and Porsche vehicles. I dont see how the frequency of my postings, and where I make them has beans to do with anything, esp considering the following story:
The last 997 through the shop was sold by a P dealer who was quite proud to broadcast that the car had undergone extensive inspection and passed all sniff tests. Of course it had significant scoring on every hole, but ran asymptomatically. When quizzed as to how a P dealer missed what must be the 1st or 2nd biggest boogey man in watercooler Porsches the reply was nearly funny. They do not inspect bores, EVER, unless the car has a misfire complaint. By the time you have misfires from bore scoring, the ship has sailed, sunk and is now rotting on the floor of the ocean.
The last 997 through the shop was sold by a P dealer who was quite proud to broadcast that the car had undergone extensive inspection and passed all sniff tests. Of course it had significant scoring on every hole, but ran asymptomatically. When quizzed as to how a P dealer missed what must be the 1st or 2nd biggest boogey man in watercooler Porsches the reply was nearly funny. They do not inspect bores, EVER, unless the car has a misfire complaint. By the time you have misfires from bore scoring, the ship has sailed, sunk and is now rotting on the floor of the ocean.
Most PPIs for these cars are a joke.
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advrider1967 (03-04-2021)
03-08-2021, 03:26 PM
#420
I have installed a 3rd radiator, a low-temp T-stat, and change my oil frequently. I don't expect to get Honda or Toyota type mileage out of my 997.1, but with these few preventative measures there is no reason why people can't buy and enjoy these cars for years without having to rebuild the engine.
Reading through this thread and others here on Rennlist makes my understand why people trade these cars in vs. selling private party. Not because the seller is necessarily trying to hide anything (although that undoubtedly happens, unfortunately), but more likely that selling private party will undoubtedly uncover bore "scoring" during a PPI.
Lastly, I wouldn't jump to conclusions based on seeing 997's at non-Porsche dealers. There are a myriad of reasons why non-Porsche dealers would take a 997 in on trade, and why the owner would trade it, and they're not all nefarious.
Last edited by G.I.G.; 03-08-2021 at 03:50 PM.