vern1

Trying to get a few shops to give me estimates on my 3 options. I think there is lots of rebuild expertise although unfortunately no one that does stuff like LN and FSI. The biggest issue as mentioned is getting people to talk to me. In that regard the dealer has been the best so far!

RND is roughly US$17k for upgrade sleeves and IMS on a long block. Doesn't include shipping, R&R etc

Am not considering a salvage motor at this point

Thanks Conrad, any info appreciated

Replied

Sent

Checking the RND option out

Thanks all

Flat6 Innovations

Look closely at the parts lists, and what they are doing. Things like what parts are replaced in the heads, (valve springs, valve seats and etc) sensors that are replaced make the differences in a quality end result. Options see to look similar until you compare the engines part to part, and process to process. The guys that are slapping things together benefit from this, if a buyer does not compare the engine completely.

They can't... Why? Well, most of them just started building these engines a few years ago. They did not pioneer anything, they don't know what they don't know. When I look at those who try to compete with what we have pioneered, developed, invented, and perfected, I see names that were often on my class manifests. They attended classes to get their feet wet, then they make up some ads that look like they've been doing this forever, and they hire a few people that know even less than they do... Lots of false image out there. They learn as they go, and they use you for their guinea pig......

The dealer has people trained to talk to you... Thats what they are good at, and they know how to tell you what you want to hear. I tell people what they NEED to hear.

For an immediate, stock replacement, no better option exists. One thing is for sure, you can't afford to do this twice. With the RBND engine you are buying from a company that's not fly by night, and has 40 years of success associated with their name. Thats the reason why SSF was the only parts company we even considered developing an engine program for.

Wise man, thats a lot like another guy's X wife... She's an X wife for a reason, and well, you don't want to find out why in most cases.

Take plenty of time to consider all options. Call us last.

vern1

Thanks Jake, funny and informative.

I am also seriously considering the 4L option with the block etc going to LN for that work and having a shop here do the R&R

And yes the dealer has the infrastructure to deal with customer service. But I don't foresee going with a stock rebuild because I don't want to deal with scoring/IMS issues going forward

Would love to have you guys dig in to a serious rebuild but 14 months is just too painful for me to wait

Thanks for the info

Flat6 Innovations

Check your PMs

Ben Z

I'm on the same page with you Vern, having just gone through the same situation.

There was no way I would consider a new stock motor from Porsche, as that design is what got me into the pickle in the first place. I felt a used/salvage motor was even more insane, especially as the cost of one seems to run perhaps a couple thou under a completely remanufactured one.

I also opted against getting an in-house rebuild because I didn't want it done by someone who does one every 6 months or less, no matter how skilled he is in other respects.

The main reason I didn't go with FSI is because this is my daily driver car, I never track it, and all I wanted was a stock displacement engine with durability enhancements. I was also hoping to save rental car expense by a quick swap-turnaround, although that ended up not happening because SSK didn't have one like mine on the shelf.

That left me with getting a crate engine. Both of the Porsche indies I considered to do the install told me RND is the way they would go, based on what goes into their builds.

KNS

I wonder if adding an upper cylinder lubricant would help? This can be added to the gas tank (a couple ounces at fill-up). As many know fuel is not what it was years ago and does not have the lubricity that it used to - ethanol doesn't help.

I've been using Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant for years on my 205,000 mile BMW. Wear numbers on analysis always come back very low (single digits) for a car of this age. (oil consumption also very low). The car has years of below freezing winter starts on it. I know of a local BMW mechanic who also uses the stuff. I'll use it occasionally for the 993 as well.

Redline also makes a fuel system cleaner, SI-1, that has an upper cylinder lubricant in it.

granprixweiss928

Whats Porsche's position on this failure?

Are they just ignoring this since these cars are well past warranty?

Saaboteur

Vern, I know you said you weren't interested in a salvage motor, but I came across this kijiji post local-ish to me in Calgary. I've dealt with the guy before for parts and also got a VAG COM and Durametric from him too. Clearly this motor wouldn't work for you, but he may have hook ups for other engines. Has always been straightforward when I've dealt with him.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-engines-and-e...ationFlag=true

Bruce In Philly

In the early 2000s, when engines were blowing left and right, you had to be very careful what year engine you put into what year car. There were very few years that you could cross install. I don't know why, but there were innovations that were new each year and the older engines would not work.

Some did it, but it took big work. I remember my indy trying to put a x-year engine in a y-year car.... the owner had the work done by another shop who didn't know about the problems and gave up. My indy, under the owner's approval, said he would give it a try and did get it to work... I remember him having to "re-pin" a major wiring harness among other stuff.

I seem to remember someone posting a table of years, models, and engines showing what did and did not work. Something to think about.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Tmistry

I tend to believe the bore scoring issue relates to owners and dealers using 0w-40 weight oil year round. Porsche Owners go long time periods, not mileage intervals, between changes. Much more importantly, owners don't think to change oil weight in relation to outside temps. The 'dealer maintained' car might have had religious oil change intervals, but I bet owners go from summer temps to winter temps with thin oil and don't change weight.

I don't think Porsche engineered cars that will have problems running in cold temps. It's the weight of oil being used in low temps. Or, the fact that the same oil weight is being used in locations that experience massive 100 degree temp variance. The weight of the oil, let alone low zinc oil, in very cold temps vs very hot extremes, would exacerbate any cylinder scoring, I assume. I'm no expert. Any thought from any engine guys?

Would love to know as I always struggle with the ideal oil.

Flat6 Innovations

When the piston measures larger than the cylinder, in temperatures less than 10F, then someone goofed up the math.

Thats what happens.

rodH

Wow so that's the bottom line? In extreme cold, too much resistance and the result is scoring?

That's a pretty low temp, but not so cold that people in the northern Midwest and Canada would face in the early AM and then they wake up and drive to work.

Philster

Remember: At no point is anyone saying if X temps happens, then Y damage occurs.

Usually, a series of problems come together in a way that might see 1% of total engines suffer from Y.

It could be a combination of temps, engine material,manufacturing variances, oil, contaminants, etc, etc, etc.

In many catastrophic failures (997 engine, airplane crash, bridge collapse, boat engine, whatever) it takes a number of things which seem to conspire with each other, in a seemingly impossible way, to cause a major failure.

.

Flat6 Innovations

Not every engine has this characteristic, but enough do. We've caught this in process several times.

No matter what anyone would like to think about Germany being cold, and there's nonwaybthencold can play into this, the data can't be argued with.

Look at the reports here and where those vehicles are from. My failure log book supports the same exact trait over and over again in regard to calls for cylinder failures.

I put this together a decade ago, and it continues to be proven over and over again. Through July reports of failed cylinders will continue to come in at a rate of 2-3 per week. It happens every year, like clock work.

VigintiTres462

Just curious, why is it cylinder 6 or bank 2 cylinders are the ones getting scored?