I am the lucky owner of a bore scored engine
#91
Drifting
Thread Starter
Any more updates to share? I've been following closely, as I'm also Canadian and really dislike how the dollar has tanked in the last 1.5 years. It seems to me that there may just not be the expertise in Canada for a rebuild - that's a bad way of putting it. I'm sure someone in our country has the ability and expertise to rebuild an M96/97, but they just aren't well known, or do enough volume, and there would be a longish wait. The RND off the shelf solution sounds like the best bet to me, but obviously the dollar has an impact. Any idea how much one of their motors costs?
A quick search of car-part.com only shows three salvage motors available, and the wreckers want US$15k for one. While that price may be negotiable, I think for that price you might as well do a rebuild. That said, I don't think LA Dismantlers is on car-part.com, you could try calling them direct, they seem to be the largest Porsche sports car dismantler around.
Best of luck.
A quick search of car-part.com only shows three salvage motors available, and the wreckers want US$15k for one. While that price may be negotiable, I think for that price you might as well do a rebuild. That said, I don't think LA Dismantlers is on car-part.com, you could try calling them direct, they seem to be the largest Porsche sports car dismantler around.
Best of luck.
RND is roughly US$17k for upgrade sleeves and IMS on a long block. Doesn't include shipping, R&R etc
Am not considering a salvage motor at this point
Just saw your thread, sorry to hear about that. On the Hershey drive your car was moving really good. Tomorrow I'll call my buddies shop in Oakville who does all the work on my Porsches. I know they are just doing a 05 C4S engine rebuild right now that the IMS took a crap(big bearing style so you have to split block). I know he has someone he swears by for fitting the block back together because they are tricky as hell to do right. I'll let you know...
Replied
I asked a Porsche aficionado friend of mine who happens to live in Toronto. Big Porsche guy... He uses Downtown Fine Cars – which is an authorized Porsche Dealership I'm told.
He also sent me a pdf list of techs in the area, pm me your email address and I'd be happy to fwd it to you if you like.
He also sent me a pdf list of techs in the area, pm me your email address and I'd be happy to fwd it to you if you like.
According to the receipt it was $17,500 (3.6L M96.05) but that's what my indie shop charged me (excluding the r/r labor of course), so I don't know what they paid SSF. It also included the IMS Solution. RND didn't have a motor for me pre-built on the shelf, so they agreed to install The Solution as they were still in the process of building it. I'm not sure how much it would cost, or even if they would do the upgrade, to an already-finished engine. I didn't have to pay any core charge, as mine was deemed fine. I also didn't have to pre-pay the core charge and get refunded, as they had my old engine to evaluate long before the new one was completed. My old one was shipped to them in November, the new one wasn't completed and shipped until the beginning of March, so my case is the exception. As I have said previously, SSK and RND are fantastic to work with, the same kind of straight-up over-the-top ethical philosophy as Jake. Which comes as no surprise, as one would not expect him to let his name get tangled up with anyone of a lesser attitude.
Thanks all
#92
Former Vendor
Trying to get a few shops to give me estimates on my 3 options.
I think there is lots of rebuild expertise although unfortunately no one that does stuff like LN and FSI.
The biggest issue as mentioned is getting people to talk to me. In that regard the dealer has been the best so far!
RND is roughly US$17k for upgrade sleeves and IMS on a long block. Doesn't include shipping, R&R etc
Am not considering a salvage motor at this point
Take plenty of time to consider all options. Call us last.
#93
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks Jake, funny and informative.
I am also seriously considering the 4L option with the block etc going to LN for that work and having a shop here do the R&R
And yes the dealer has the infrastructure to deal with customer service. But I don't foresee going with a stock rebuild because I don't want to deal with scoring/IMS issues going forward
Would love to have you guys dig in to a serious rebuild but 14 months is just too painful for me to wait
Thanks for the info
I am also seriously considering the 4L option with the block etc going to LN for that work and having a shop here do the R&R
And yes the dealer has the infrastructure to deal with customer service. But I don't foresee going with a stock rebuild because I don't want to deal with scoring/IMS issues going forward
Would love to have you guys dig in to a serious rebuild but 14 months is just too painful for me to wait
Thanks for the info
#95
I'm on the same page with you Vern, having just gone through the same situation.
There was no way I would consider a new stock motor from Porsche, as that design is what got me into the pickle in the first place. I felt a used/salvage motor was even more insane, especially as the cost of one seems to run perhaps a couple thou under a completely remanufactured one.
I also opted against getting an in-house rebuild because I didn't want it done by someone who does one every 6 months or less, no matter how skilled he is in other respects.
The main reason I didn't go with FSI is because this is my daily driver car, I never track it, and all I wanted was a stock displacement engine with durability enhancements. I was also hoping to save rental car expense by a quick swap-turnaround, although that ended up not happening because SSK didn't have one like mine on the shelf.
That left me with getting a crate engine. Both of the Porsche indies I considered to do the install told me RND is the way they would go, based on what goes into their builds.
There was no way I would consider a new stock motor from Porsche, as that design is what got me into the pickle in the first place. I felt a used/salvage motor was even more insane, especially as the cost of one seems to run perhaps a couple thou under a completely remanufactured one.
I also opted against getting an in-house rebuild because I didn't want it done by someone who does one every 6 months or less, no matter how skilled he is in other respects.
The main reason I didn't go with FSI is because this is my daily driver car, I never track it, and all I wanted was a stock displacement engine with durability enhancements. I was also hoping to save rental car expense by a quick swap-turnaround, although that ended up not happening because SSK didn't have one like mine on the shelf.
That left me with getting a crate engine. Both of the Porsche indies I considered to do the install told me RND is the way they would go, based on what goes into their builds.
#96
I've been using Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant for years on my 205,000 mile BMW. Wear numbers on analysis always come back very low (single digits) for a car of this age. (oil consumption also very low). The car has years of below freezing winter starts on it. I know of a local BMW mechanic who also uses the stuff. I'll use it occasionally for the 993 as well.
Redline also makes a fuel system cleaner, SI-1, that has an upper cylinder lubricant in it.
Last edited by KNS; 04-30-2016 at 04:52 PM.
#98
Burning Brakes
Vern, I know you said you weren't interested in a salvage motor, but I came across this kijiji post local-ish to me in Calgary. I've dealt with the guy before for parts and also got a VAG COM and Durametric from him too. Clearly this motor wouldn't work for you, but he may have hook ups for other engines. Has always been straightforward when I've dealt with him.
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-engines-and-e...ationFlag=true
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-engines-and-e...ationFlag=true
#99
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
In the early 2000s, when engines were blowing left and right, you had to be very careful what year engine you put into what year car. There were very few years that you could cross install. I don't know why, but there were innovations that were new each year and the older engines would not work.
Some did it, but it took big work. I remember my indy trying to put a x-year engine in a y-year car.... the owner had the work done by another shop who didn't know about the problems and gave up. My indy, under the owner's approval, said he would give it a try and did get it to work... I remember him having to "re-pin" a major wiring harness among other stuff.
I seem to remember someone posting a table of years, models, and engines showing what did and did not work. Something to think about.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Some did it, but it took big work. I remember my indy trying to put a x-year engine in a y-year car.... the owner had the work done by another shop who didn't know about the problems and gave up. My indy, under the owner's approval, said he would give it a try and did get it to work... I remember him having to "re-pin" a major wiring harness among other stuff.
I seem to remember someone posting a table of years, models, and engines showing what did and did not work. Something to think about.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
#100
Rennlist Member
I tend to believe the bore scoring issue relates to owners and dealers using 0w-40 weight oil year round. Porsche Owners go long time periods, not mileage intervals, between changes. Much more importantly, owners don't think to change oil weight in relation to outside temps. The 'dealer maintained' car might have had religious oil change intervals, but I bet owners go from summer temps to winter temps with thin oil and don't change weight.
I don't think Porsche engineered cars that will have problems running in cold temps. It's the weight of oil being used in low temps. Or, the fact that the same oil weight is being used in locations that experience massive 100 degree temp variance. The weight of the oil, let alone low zinc oil, in very cold temps vs very hot extremes, would exacerbate any cylinder scoring, I assume. I'm no expert. Any thought from any engine guys?
Would love to know as I always struggle with the ideal oil.
I don't think Porsche engineered cars that will have problems running in cold temps. It's the weight of oil being used in low temps. Or, the fact that the same oil weight is being used in locations that experience massive 100 degree temp variance. The weight of the oil, let alone low zinc oil, in very cold temps vs very hot extremes, would exacerbate any cylinder scoring, I assume. I'm no expert. Any thought from any engine guys?
Would love to know as I always struggle with the ideal oil.
#101
Former Vendor
I tend to believe the bore scoring issue relates to owners and dealers using 0w-40 weight oil year round. Porsche Owners go long time periods, not mileage intervals, between changes. Much more importantly, owners don't think to change oil weight in relation to outside temps. The 'dealer maintained' car might have had religious oil change intervals, but I bet owners go from summer temps to winter temps with thin oil and don't change weight.
I don't think Porsche engineered cars that will have problems running in cold temps. It's the weight of oil being used in low temps. Or, the fact that the same oil weight is being used in locations that experience massive 100 degree temp variance. The weight of the oil, let alone low zinc oil, in very cold temps vs very hot extremes, would exacerbate any cylinder scoring, I assume. I'm no expert. Any thought from any engine guys?
Would love to know as I always struggle with the ideal oil.
I don't think Porsche engineered cars that will have problems running in cold temps. It's the weight of oil being used in low temps. Or, the fact that the same oil weight is being used in locations that experience massive 100 degree temp variance. The weight of the oil, let alone low zinc oil, in very cold temps vs very hot extremes, would exacerbate any cylinder scoring, I assume. I'm no expert. Any thought from any engine guys?
Would love to know as I always struggle with the ideal oil.
Thats what happens.
#102
Rennlist Member
That's a pretty low temp, but not so cold that people in the northern Midwest and Canada would face in the early AM and then they wake up and drive to work.
#103
Three Wheelin'
Remember: At no point is anyone saying if X temps happens, then Y damage occurs.
Usually, a series of problems come together in a way that might see 1% of total engines suffer from Y.
It could be a combination of temps, engine material,manufacturing variances, oil, contaminants, etc, etc, etc.
In many catastrophic failures (997 engine, airplane crash, bridge collapse, boat engine, whatever) it takes a number of things which seem to conspire with each other, in a seemingly impossible way, to cause a major failure.
.
Usually, a series of problems come together in a way that might see 1% of total engines suffer from Y.
It could be a combination of temps, engine material,manufacturing variances, oil, contaminants, etc, etc, etc.
In many catastrophic failures (997 engine, airplane crash, bridge collapse, boat engine, whatever) it takes a number of things which seem to conspire with each other, in a seemingly impossible way, to cause a major failure.
.
#104
Former Vendor
No matter what anyone would like to think about Germany being cold, and there's nonwaybthencold can play into this, the data can't be argued with.
Look at the reports here and where those vehicles are from. My failure log book supports the same exact trait over and over again in regard to calls for cylinder failures.
I put this together a decade ago, and it continues to be proven over and over again. Through July reports of failed cylinders will continue to come in at a rate of 2-3 per week. It happens every year, like clock work.
#105