997s deals around the interwebz (no affiliation)
12-26-2019, 12:30 PM
#5761
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you really don’t think there are people here who pump stuff up largely because they own similar cars and want to either protect their investments or just feel better about their purchases? i think it happens quite a bit, and actually it’s pretty obvious at times. like I said, I don’t have a dog in the fight. and the market will tell us if the pricing is on the mark.
My GTS is a can and a pdk which has about zero to do with value of a manual coupe.
Warrington Porsche ask $90k plus for their GTS manuals because they think they can get that or close to that for these cars which has zero to do with what we say here.
12-26-2019, 12:32 PM
#5762
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While I certainly hope my 6spd GTS will appreciate at some point I can't kid myself . People are spending money like drunken sailors right now because their homes and 401K's have exploded in value. It's 2005 all over again.
I was looking up production numbers and Howtoporsche looks pretty goofy. They don't even list the 2012 GTS. I assume then they lumped them together with 2011. http://howtoporsche.com/911-series/9...r-and-version/
What data do you like to use?
I was looking up production numbers and Howtoporsche looks pretty goofy. They don't even list the 2012 GTS. I assume then they lumped them together with 2011. http://howtoporsche.com/911-series/9...r-and-version/
What data do you like to use?
Do you have a 991 or 997 GTS? I thought yours was a 997.2.
If a 997.2 GTS, how many miles and what color combo.
I don’t think 991 GTS will hold as high of a percentage of MSRP as the 997.2 GTS over the long run.
12-26-2019, 12:37 PM
#5763
Rennlist Member
While I certainly hope my 6spd GTS will appreciate at some point I can't kid myself . People are spending money like drunken sailors right now because their homes and 401K's have exploded in value. It's 2005 all over again.
I was looking up production numbers and Howtoporsche looks pretty goofy. They don't even list the 2012 GTS. I assume then they lumped them together with 2011. http://howtoporsche.com/911-series/9...r-and-version/
What data do you like to use?
I was looking up production numbers and Howtoporsche looks pretty goofy. They don't even list the 2012 GTS. I assume then they lumped them together with 2011. http://howtoporsche.com/911-series/9...r-and-version/
What data do you like to use?
12-26-2019, 02:15 PM
#5764
While I certainly hope my 6spd GTS will appreciate at some point I can't kid myself . People are spending money like drunken sailors right now because their homes and 401K's have exploded in value. It's 2005 all over again.
I was looking up production numbers and Howtoporsche looks pretty goofy. They don't even list the 2012 GTS. I assume then they lumped them together with 2011. http://howtoporsche.com/911-series/9...r-and-version/
What data do you like to use?
I don't understand what they list as a 2010.2 R
I was looking up production numbers and Howtoporsche looks pretty goofy. They don't even list the 2012 GTS. I assume then they lumped them together with 2011. http://howtoporsche.com/911-series/9...r-and-version/
What data do you like to use?
I don't understand what they list as a 2010.2 R
12-26-2019, 03:29 PM
#5765
Factory- or dealer-installed, the OEM aero kit is hard to find and highly desired, so while I agree with your other points about mileage and it being a GTS4, the aero kit will help the car. It really sets the car apart.
12-26-2019, 06:16 PM
#5766
Rennlist Member
Seems like long ago some dredged up a spreadsheet like document showing number of 997.2 manuals versus pdk, but I cannot recall if it was broken down by model number
Do you have a 991 or 997 GTS? I thought yours was a 997.2.
If a 997.2 GTS, how many miles and what color combo.
I don’t think 991 GTS will hold as high of a percentage of MSRP as the 997.2 GTS over the long run.
Do you have a 991 or 997 GTS? I thought yours was a 997.2.
If a 997.2 GTS, how many miles and what color combo.
I don’t think 991 GTS will hold as high of a percentage of MSRP as the 997.2 GTS over the long run.
I have a 2012 GTS coupe silver 6 speed w/ 23k miles now. And a 2015 GTS cab w/PDK and 12k miles.
12-26-2019, 06:32 PM
#5767
Racer
12-26-2019, 06:38 PM
#5769
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Porsche prices peaked about 4 or 5 years ago and have been steadily declining since. Prices for 930s, 965s and 993tts got insane and air cooled cars were in ridiculous land as well, but corrected.
12-26-2019, 07:02 PM
#5770
Rennlist Member
Yeah I talked about it before. I had a 2007 C4S 6spd cab and saw the 2015 which was a f*cking beauty. The dealer gave me a super high trade in...almost as much as I paid for it. And the GTS was priced right. So I jumped. Then I realized how much bigger the 991 is, and how I LOVE and MISSED the 6 speed. I was on this forum and somebody posted about the 2012 GTS and stole it off Craig's List. It was a fight as others saw it too. I really dig the smaller form factor. The 997 feels more VISCERAL. Thanks to Rennlist. That's why I post about cars I see, or warranty prices for others if I can help.
12-27-2019, 12:51 AM
#5771
Former Vendor
RE: Overton GTS manual for $83,500.
The Overton GTS has 42k miles and the aero kit is not factory installed. The car in stock form is more valuable, although I personally would want the aero kit. It is also a 4 and I think the allure of a GTS is wide body with RWD. The big hit on this car though is miles and non-factory installed aero kit when talking premium value.
The Overton car with less than 25k miles, in stock form, from a Porsche dealership with a CPO would be long gone at that price, perhaps sold first day listed as people scan this national CPO list daily.
A month or 2 or 3 months on the market for a specialty or rarer item with more focused target market and a premium price tag is not a big deal.
Even when I was looking for a bargain GTS to daily drive (i.e., unwilling to pay a premium of any kind), I would NOT consider any car with over 35k to 40k miles. I really only wanted something with less than 30k miles and actually wanted 20k or less.
Right or wrong, premium cars with premium price tags tend to be more liquid from Porsche dealerships with a CPO attached. People will definitely pay more for cars like this from a factory dealership, especially with a CPO.
By chance, is Warrington Porsche owned by same family as Richard Sloan or Sloan motorcars. If so, theses guys really know the high-end Porsche market and Porsche clientele well.
The Overton GTS has 42k miles and the aero kit is not factory installed. The car in stock form is more valuable, although I personally would want the aero kit. It is also a 4 and I think the allure of a GTS is wide body with RWD. The big hit on this car though is miles and non-factory installed aero kit when talking premium value.
The Overton car with less than 25k miles, in stock form, from a Porsche dealership with a CPO would be long gone at that price, perhaps sold first day listed as people scan this national CPO list daily.
A month or 2 or 3 months on the market for a specialty or rarer item with more focused target market and a premium price tag is not a big deal.
Even when I was looking for a bargain GTS to daily drive (i.e., unwilling to pay a premium of any kind), I would NOT consider any car with over 35k to 40k miles. I really only wanted something with less than 30k miles and actually wanted 20k or less.
Right or wrong, premium cars with premium price tags tend to be more liquid from Porsche dealerships with a CPO attached. People will definitely pay more for cars like this from a factory dealership, especially with a CPO.
By chance, is Warrington Porsche owned by same family as Richard Sloan or Sloan motorcars. If so, theses guys really know the high-end Porsche market and Porsche clientele well.
Just to clarify, the original selling dealer added the factory aero kit before it was sold new. Yes, it does have some miles on it, but it is in great shape. I don't believe the 4 makes it less valuable because technically the 4GTS manual is the rarest out there. I typically will have cars a little longer than most dealers because I'm a one man show and I don't have a lot. I have a storage area for cars. They don't ever see weather and are inside on tenders unless I'm taking one out. I drive everything at least once every week or two to keep everything up and ready and not flat spot the tires. I'd say 9 times out of 10 the first person to come see my car takes it home, the 1 out of 10 is bought sight unseen. I only buy cars I'd own myself and I'm very picky when it comes to what I keep on hand. Plus, I do believe my 4GTS is the cheapest manual GTS in the country right now. I'm also always open to reasonable offers and good trades.
I started doing this as a second job/hobby. I'm a private accountant during the day and the cars take up almost all of my free time, but I started doing this because I was tired of the typical dealer nonsense. I dealt with dealers all over for years and wanted to offer clients a more personal experience. No doc fees or admin fees and I'll always give you a full and honest assessment of the condition of the cars I have. I had a bunch of dealers over the years tell me a car was perfect only for it to be massively flawed after I drove 6 hours one way to see it. Dealers will do that in hopes that a buyer will feel obligated to buy because they invested so much time. I'd rather my clients be fully aware of the cars condition before flying or driving to see it, that way I can keep up my record of customers getting here and the car exceeding expectations.
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12-27-2019, 11:00 AM
#5772
Rennlist Member
Sir, it does not matter who added the aero kit. It was not factory, therefore it hurts the desirability and market value of the car. Same with being a 4 GTS, the GTS was never intended to be offered with 4wd, it was supposed to be a street version of the GT3 as is well documented and stated in multiple interviews, including one with the Porsche executive who was responsible for it at the time. The front drive systems adds weight, complexity and negatively affects the steering feel of the car. It was only added many months after the GTS was debuted in direct response to requests from snowy countries who were upset that they would not have a market for the final version of the 997.2. Yes, there are certainly 4wd fanboys and to some, the added bodywork and 4wd will be what excites them, but in general and to most Porsche buyers, the GTS was designed to be a 2wd Wide Body which makes it very, very rare in the Porsche world and is a part of what makes this model so desirable. A perfect, no excuses GTS will absolutely bring all the money since there are so few remaining. Many cars have been modified by their 3rd or 4th owners, not taken care of, damaged or driven high miles. So if you have a rare, "in the wrapper" version, it will command a super high price. I would even buy a car like that, and in fact have. Your car is NOT that car. I'm sure you will find a buyer who will love it, but its going to be a specific buyer and not a majority.
Just to clarify, the original selling dealer added the factory aero kit before it was sold new. Yes, it does have some miles on it, but it is in great shape. I don't believe the 4 makes it less valuable because technically the 4GTS manual is the rarest out there. I typically will have cars a little longer than most dealers because I'm a one man show and I don't have a lot. I have a storage area for cars. They don't ever see weather and are inside on tenders unless I'm taking one out. I drive everything at least once every week or two to keep everything up and ready and not flat spot the tires. I'd say 9 times out of 10 the first person to come see my car takes it home, the 1 out of 10 is bought sight unseen. I only buy cars I'd own myself and I'm very picky when it comes to what I keep on hand. Plus, I do believe my 4GTS is the cheapest manual GTS in the country right now. I'm also always open to reasonable offers and good trades.
I started doing this as a second job/hobby. I'm a private accountant during the day and the cars take up almost all of my free time, but I started doing this because I was tired of the typical dealer nonsense. I dealt with dealers all over for years and wanted to offer clients a more personal experience. No doc fees or admin fees and I'll always give you a full and honest assessment of the condition of the cars I have. I had a bunch of dealers over the years tell me a car was perfect only for it to be massively flawed after I drove 6 hours one way to see it. Dealers will do that in hopes that a buyer will feel obligated to buy because they invested so much time. I'd rather my clients be fully aware of the cars condition before flying or driving to see it, that way I can keep up my record of customers getting here and the car exceeding expectations.
I started doing this as a second job/hobby. I'm a private accountant during the day and the cars take up almost all of my free time, but I started doing this because I was tired of the typical dealer nonsense. I dealt with dealers all over for years and wanted to offer clients a more personal experience. No doc fees or admin fees and I'll always give you a full and honest assessment of the condition of the cars I have. I had a bunch of dealers over the years tell me a car was perfect only for it to be massively flawed after I drove 6 hours one way to see it. Dealers will do that in hopes that a buyer will feel obligated to buy because they invested so much time. I'd rather my clients be fully aware of the cars condition before flying or driving to see it, that way I can keep up my record of customers getting here and the car exceeding expectations.
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12-27-2019, 11:06 AM
#5773
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Sir, it does not matter who added the aero kit. It was not factory, therefore it hurts the desirability and market value of the car. Same with being a 4 GTS, the GTS was never intended to be offered with 4wd, it was supposed to be a street version of the GT3 as is well documented and stated in multiple interviews, including one with the Porsche executive who was responsible for it at the time. The front drive systems adds weight, complexity and negatively affects the steering feel of the car. It was only added many months after the GTS was debuted in direct response to requests from snowy countries who were upset that they would not have a market for the final version of the 997.2. Yes, there are certainly 4wd fanboys and to some, the added bodywork and 4wd will be what excites them, but in general and to most Porsche buyers, the GTS was designed to be a 2wd Wide Body which makes it very, very rare in the Porsche world and is a part of what makes this model so desirable. A perfect, no excuses GTS will absolutely bring all the money since there are so few remaining. Many cars have been modified by their 3rd or 4th owners, not taken care of, damaged or driven high miles. So if you have a rare, "in the wrapper" version, it will command a super high price. I would even buy a car like that, and in fact have. Your car is NOT that car. I'm sure you will find a buyer who will love it, but its going to be a specific buyer and not a majority.
12-27-2019, 11:18 AM
#5774
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Lol, I sometimes act as a purchaser's agent or seller's agent . . . as a currently licensed to practice attorney . . . for very high dollar automotive transactions.
One of my closet friends located in Hallandale Beach brokers very high-end and rare exotics all over the world including a somewhat recent sale of a 250 GTO. I discussed my involvement in the sale of his 1 of 2 full Mansory Package Bugatti Veyron 1 or 2 pages back in this thread I have also helped several friends over the years that are licensed dealers. Research is all part of due diligence in large transactions and my story about the Veyron sale 1 or 2 pages back was one of the most bizarre and potentially serious research projects I have preformed to consummate a multi-million dollar sale and preserve my close friend's reputation.
One of my closet friends located in Hallandale Beach brokers very high-end and rare exotics all over the world including a somewhat recent sale of a 250 GTO. I discussed my involvement in the sale of his 1 of 2 full Mansory Package Bugatti Veyron 1 or 2 pages back in this thread I have also helped several friends over the years that are licensed dealers. Research is all part of due diligence in large transactions and my story about the Veyron sale 1 or 2 pages back was one of the most bizarre and potentially serious research projects I have preformed to consummate a multi-million dollar sale and preserve my close friend's reputation.
12-27-2019, 11:26 AM
#5775
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I am speaking more long term and to fetch super high prices though perhaps long-term . . . which is a bit silly as we have no idea exactly how rare, or even if truly rare, a GTS manual is without seeing production numbers. Cras rolling through auction like this generally get dinged when not original or restored to original. Having the original parts with the car would ameliorate this effect.
Many have discussed on here multiple times how trying to sell a GTS or any Porsche with even far superior in every way after market wheels makes it more difficult to sell and excludes certain prospective purchasers unless you keep the OEM wheels with the car. Lol, makes no sense to me provided the after market wheel are ones I like as the reduction in unsprung weight, better fitting offsets and better looks over the OEM wheels is a win, win, win to me!