A couple of options?

https://vinanalytics.com/car/WP0AB2A97BS720572/

Division: PCNA Commission #: 728924

Prod Month: 2010-10-01 VIN: WP0AB2A97BS720572 Price: $115,650.00 Exterior: Basalt Black Metallic Interior: Black Full Leather Interior Warranty Start: December 20, 2010

BASE 911 Carrera S 022 Instrument Dials in Black 176 Sports Exhaust System 407 19" Sport Design Wheel 480 Manual transmission 498 Deletion of Model Designation 541 Front Seat Ventilation 619 Bluetooth Interface for Mobile Phone 635 ParkAssist Rear 640 Sport Chrono Package Plus 671 Voice Control 810 Floor Mats in Interior Color 844 Three-Spoke Multi-Function Steering Wheel 870 Universal Audio Interface AT Black Full Leather P15 Electronically Adjustable Seats P17 Sports Suspension (-20 mm) Including Mechanical Rear Differential Lock P35 Comfort Package P36 Infotainment Package XES Preparation for Outer Door-Sill Guards, Illuminated XMP Sun Visors in Leather XMZ Rear Section of Center Console in Leather XUB Headlight Cleaner cover in Exterior Color XXB Outer Door-sill Guards in Stainless Steel, Illuminated XXZ Footrest in Sports Look Z4 Basalt Black Metallic



RE: Values

Perhaps you are just new to 911s in general. Past performance is a good predicter on future performance and I have been driving and racing 911s since the early 80s and watched this market over the years.

BTW, the Ferrari market, my other passion, is the same. You might think it ridiculous, but I purchased a 2017 F80 M3 Competition package thinking why not, could use a four door car on occasion. Nope, that thing sits in my garage and never gets driven. I take the DB11 or the 911 and just stuff my young kids in the back seats. It may sound ridiculous to you, but I was being very candid when I say I would never drive the C8. One of my close friends has 4 Chevy dealerships and guess what he drives? A 2013 997.2 tt S and he was very unenthusiastic about the C8 when I asked him about them a couple of weeks ago.

Guys and gals purchasing these "older" Porsches are not stupid and apparently smart enough to have the means to pay more than C8 prices for old cars. They know what they know what they are doing and there is so much more about 911s than just a 0-60 stat.

 

Well I certainly respect your take since you have much much more experience than me driving sports cars. I'd still be curious to hear your take on what exactly makes a 997.2 C2S more desirable than a base C8. On paper (we can ignore looks since that's totally subjective) the C8 is in another league from the C2S and from what the latest reviews have been saying, it sounds and handles amazing. What exactly would make you want to leave a C8 in the garage in favor of a 997.2 C2S?

 

C8 will, may already have changed the sports car landscape.

Porsche prices are out of control and with the RL horror stories of IMSB and Borescore failures, added to the ridiculous parts and service prices I see trouble ahead. Add the skriking demographics of buyers and Porsche may end up chasing a decreasing market and end up like Harley.

Still have a small collections of P cars but have already changed to a Ford product for track work. C8 will join the fleet in year two of production as my track car.

 

Not super in tune with current pricing on GT3s because I know use Ferrari Challenges for track toys, but I think your illustration is kind of good.

For 997.2 manual coupes in the 25k miles or less range like this car:

C2 (+/- $45k to $50k)
->
C2S ($60k to maybe more since this may have sold already)
->
GTS (manuals are rare) ($80k to $85k)
->
TT (2009 does not count) ($90k to $100k)
->
TTS ($100k plus for a manual if you can find one)

Throw GT2 and Speedster pricing in there and $60k for a 997.2 C2S is an absolute steal.

 

Its all good. That is why we have options.

15 years ago when water pumpers came out, people complained about having to do top end rebuilds on all air cooled engines. Look where those prices went.

RE: Bore Scoring

Right now, that is still a creature of the 997.1 S and so far, overall, the 9A1 DFIs have proven to be very reliable which is why we have seen 997.2 prices hold steady or rise.

 

I don't believe the Turbo S was offered in a manual option at all for the 997.

 

Do you have a 997.2 C2S or any 997.2?

First, I do not like the way the C8 looks at all. It looks cartoonish and something like Hyundai would do when trying to pass off a knock-off cheap NSX. I also like a sports car or flat-plane sound, not a red-neck V8 roar.

Performance wise, can you drive a 997.2 at the limits? I doubt 99.9% of the people on her can drive a 997.2 at 9/10s, much less 10/10s, on a track and a 997.2 has plenty of performance for a public street.

Sports cars are all about the subjective, not the objective unless you are actually racing them on track . . . please keep that shyte off public streets. NA 911s have never been the fastest in a straight line or best handling on the race track, nor are most Ferraris, but they are the complete package and a joy to own and drive.

I love the looks of a 911, I love their handling characteristics, the steering, the braking feel, the balance, the flat 6 sound and the feel of a 911 throttle steering out of a corner. They are comfortable, have nice interiors, dependable daily drivers and perhaps the best all around sports cars in the world for the price. You can daily drive them and beat the heck out of them. They have very low maintenance costs compared to other exotics and the secondary market, like Ferraris or Rolex watches, so you can easily trade in and out of them without getting killed.

They also have back seats and I have been stuffing my kids in the back of these things since the 1990s. They didn't seem to mind too much as my middle daughter who is 24 is now a very accomplished racer and 911 lover and my youngest daughter, now 8, loves the little back seat.

 

Lol, I guess that is why I have never seen one! I was curious about that.

 

I own neither but have driven several 997.1 C2Ss. They were very nice but one of my biggest takeaways was the lack of low-end torque which is exactly what helps make a car fun on the street. By the time you wind the C2S out in second or third gear you're already doing way above the speed limit anyway so that detracts from some of the street fun.

 

Without a doubt, your comment is what a lot of people say after limited test drive in a 911 and before they are comfy with and know how to drive them. I get this 100% which is why I asked if you owned one.

Drive a 997.2S, GTS or a tt if you want more torque. 0 - 60 in low 4s is plenty for the street.

From 89 until very recently, I purchased a new 911 turbo every 2 to 4 years as a my daily driver and many of them were heavily modded up to 750 hp. I also have a DB 11 and know all about torque. I just ditched my 2017 991.2 Turbo as my daily driver and picked up a 2012 GTS for that role. The GTS has plenty and is a blast to drive.

 

Thats the great thing about having your own money to spend how you please. Whomever wants a Chevy or Ford can have one. Those that want something else can too. I personally would not compare a Corvette or Mustang to a 911, regardless of performance. By performance alone, the $$$ for a 911 probably does not make a lot of sense if you compare to domestics. But then you don't sit inside of performance. You sit inside a car. And I know which I'd rather sit in to extract whatever price to performance ratio my dollars were satisfied with. In the end.. there are tradeoffs.

Enjoy your Fords or Chevys but I'm not sure how its relevant to the 997 deals thread! They are not 997 deals.

 

Based on recent listing $59,900 is an solid price for a 2011 C2S MT Coupe with a $115k sticker price. It's one of the better specs I've seen. If you have money to jump into a GTS, go for it, but it's going to cost quite a bit more than $59,900.

Arguing that the prices are out of whack is kind of pointless. The prices are what the market says they are. If it's too much for you then you aren't the market.

 

Ain’t that the truth. Porsche 911 prices have never really made much sense. You are either in or not in and cars like that black car with the $115,000 sticker could probably have sold for even more.

 

Completely different cars. Honestly hard to believe anyone would even cross-shop the two.

 

The market for the 997.2 Carrera is hot because prospective buyers want the 9A1 with a 6 speed manual and there aren't THAT many of them, a few thousand or so. Something like 70% of 997.2 cars made were PDK.

If you're cross shopping a brand new Corvette and the 997.2 you'd probably be happier looking for a 991.1 C2S PDK or a 718 GTS PDK.

Also, no C8 is going to be $60k unless you go absolutely zero options. Z51 and the "good" options raise the price to something like 80k.

And while I'm not trying to slag on the Corvette, I saw tons of C7s of all types from plain to ZR1 sitting, unsold. A buddy of mine turned down a $30k discount on a ZR1.

If you think paying $60k for a top quality 997.2 C2S is wasteful, then let me know how you feel after eating a 30 to 40 percent depreciation hit on your C8 after a few years.