My poor car
07-09-2013, 05:25 AM
#301
Thinking outside da' bun...
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lozzy, this is a long brain dump but bear with me....
I had a similar experience with a severe Porsche letdown a few years ago regarding the creation and delivery of a COA. It took several months to get a COA and every time they sent me one, they sent me a lousy incorrect COA for my 1988 911 Turbo with options such as a Tiptronic transmission and other relatively head-scratching items. The longer the process went on, the more inept and lousy the customer service got. I went through all of the proper channels that you tried to go through in order to resolve an issue that should have been resolved in hours or days, and not weeks and months.
Here is that thread in its entirety:
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...heres-why.html
After months of frustration and complete ignorance and apathy upon the part of 1-800-Porsche to send me a correct COA for my $100, I finally let loose on them and made what was a private struggle openly public.
It was only then that I actually started to get traction with the problem. When it was all said and done, I had someone from Porsche NA personally pick up the phone and publicly apologize for the complete incompetence and misdirection of the entire situation. He apologized on behalf of himself and PCNA and promised me he would be returning to Germany within a week and would personally look up my vehicle records and make certain I received a corrected COA expeditiously. He also promised -- at my request -- to review my case and use it as a training tool for those who failed beneath him to ensure something like it never happens again.
Whats the point of me telling you this? It wasn't me that finally got the problem resolved. It was the Porsche community that backed me up and "had my corner" from the get go. The resolution came because the public reputation hit was becoming problematic and someone finally realized that the perception and good will was worth far more than screwing up someone's COA five times. Unfortunately, the half a dozen people who I dealt with prior to the "solution provider" did not see the situation this way and chose to abuse my relationship.
Without the community here backing me up, I doubt anything would have changed and Id still be sitting here today, counting the growing pile of screwed up COAs, excuses, promised phone calls that went un-returned, and so on. And my problem was FAR less substantial than the one you are dealing with here.
My advice is continue to leverage your brothers and sisters here on Rennlist. This is where the real justice will be handed out. This is where the real leverage sits. Your attorney will send letters and ask for this and that, but we all know if attorneys actually end up in court -- nobody wins but the attorneys. Court is where people go to make attorneys rich and claim hollow victories and moral high ground -- usually with little or nothing to show for it when the dust settles.
Beverly Hills Porsche will eventually do the right thing. I believe that because they will reach a point where the public reputation hit they take will finally crack a ceiling where someone realizes the losses they are incurring from future sales, service, or recommendations will far exceed whatever "restitution" it will require to make you whole again and make your problem their problem for good and get you out from under this mess. When that pendulum finally swings -- no one can say for sure.
But the beauty of the Internet is nothing ever gets deleted. Even stuff that gets deleted. It's the fastest and most aggressive form of justice because its the courtroom of public opinion. Once a business digs themselves a hole so deep, its difficult to ever truly climb out. Don't kid yourself about Beverly Hills Porsche having enough sales to sell to movie stars all day and not care about us "little people". Us little people are what buy and service most vehicles. We are the most active people in the Porsche community. We are the ones that light candles under asses and start ****storms when we feel our relationship with Porsche is being taken for granted, abused, and mis-used.
The fact of the matter is every one of us could be driving another make of automobile right now, but we've chosen to drive a Porsche. We do that because we expect just a little bit more from the people behind the brand. They, like us, are supposed to be passionate about the thrill of partaking in a luxury that requires a higher reach, a higher standard, a better understanding of what it means to enter into a life-long relationship with a manufacturer.
But it doesn't mean we're here forever, obliged to take the abuse of dealers and managerial suits over-stepping their place and downright forgetting themselves.
The truth of the matter is this: Porsche is not the only game in town. There is nothing stopping us from sticking an ad on Autotrader and liquidating all of our vehicles if we've reached a collective understanding that Porsche no longer speaks the same language we do -- from the moment we extend our hand to introduce ourselves to a salesperson, to the moment we recommend a Porsche to that close friend.
We could be driving BMWs, Ferraris, Maseratis, Audis, Mercedes-Benz, Lamborghini, Lotus, and several other types of cars and enjoying nearly as much fun -- potentially without all of the hassle, baggage, and narcissism of those handing us the keys and telling us "you're on your own, it's not our problem anymore, our understanding is you've had a mis-understanding, goodbye and good luck."
When you do that to someone in the brotherhood and sisterhood, you do it to all of us. The offense taken is burdened by ever Porsche owner who has made a life for him or herself to drive the crest, wear the shirt, pay for the race ticket, and embrace the people who stand behind the label.
So fear not. I believe there will be a remedy. But you have to let Rennlist and other communities like it do what they do best: leverage a voice that reverberates exponentially. It's obvious those against you have called your bluff and the bluff of the Porsche community.
If that's how they feel about us, that's all I need to know about why it may be time for all of us to move on to something else. If Lozzy wanted a Chevrolet experience, he could have made his life far easier and bought a Chevrolet.
No question there are times when certain buyers simply cannot be satisfied. We've seen the photos however. The paint on that car is inexcusable, nevermind for a CPO car with under 10,000 miles. It looks like its been driven through a forest of rose bushes. It makes Earl Scheib look like Chip Foose. The only thing perfect about that finish is its perfectly misrepresented.
I had a similar experience with a severe Porsche letdown a few years ago regarding the creation and delivery of a COA. It took several months to get a COA and every time they sent me one, they sent me a lousy incorrect COA for my 1988 911 Turbo with options such as a Tiptronic transmission and other relatively head-scratching items. The longer the process went on, the more inept and lousy the customer service got. I went through all of the proper channels that you tried to go through in order to resolve an issue that should have been resolved in hours or days, and not weeks and months.
Here is that thread in its entirety:
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...heres-why.html
After months of frustration and complete ignorance and apathy upon the part of 1-800-Porsche to send me a correct COA for my $100, I finally let loose on them and made what was a private struggle openly public.
It was only then that I actually started to get traction with the problem. When it was all said and done, I had someone from Porsche NA personally pick up the phone and publicly apologize for the complete incompetence and misdirection of the entire situation. He apologized on behalf of himself and PCNA and promised me he would be returning to Germany within a week and would personally look up my vehicle records and make certain I received a corrected COA expeditiously. He also promised -- at my request -- to review my case and use it as a training tool for those who failed beneath him to ensure something like it never happens again.
Whats the point of me telling you this? It wasn't me that finally got the problem resolved. It was the Porsche community that backed me up and "had my corner" from the get go. The resolution came because the public reputation hit was becoming problematic and someone finally realized that the perception and good will was worth far more than screwing up someone's COA five times. Unfortunately, the half a dozen people who I dealt with prior to the "solution provider" did not see the situation this way and chose to abuse my relationship.
Without the community here backing me up, I doubt anything would have changed and Id still be sitting here today, counting the growing pile of screwed up COAs, excuses, promised phone calls that went un-returned, and so on. And my problem was FAR less substantial than the one you are dealing with here.
My advice is continue to leverage your brothers and sisters here on Rennlist. This is where the real justice will be handed out. This is where the real leverage sits. Your attorney will send letters and ask for this and that, but we all know if attorneys actually end up in court -- nobody wins but the attorneys. Court is where people go to make attorneys rich and claim hollow victories and moral high ground -- usually with little or nothing to show for it when the dust settles.
Beverly Hills Porsche will eventually do the right thing. I believe that because they will reach a point where the public reputation hit they take will finally crack a ceiling where someone realizes the losses they are incurring from future sales, service, or recommendations will far exceed whatever "restitution" it will require to make you whole again and make your problem their problem for good and get you out from under this mess. When that pendulum finally swings -- no one can say for sure.
But the beauty of the Internet is nothing ever gets deleted. Even stuff that gets deleted. It's the fastest and most aggressive form of justice because its the courtroom of public opinion. Once a business digs themselves a hole so deep, its difficult to ever truly climb out. Don't kid yourself about Beverly Hills Porsche having enough sales to sell to movie stars all day and not care about us "little people". Us little people are what buy and service most vehicles. We are the most active people in the Porsche community. We are the ones that light candles under asses and start ****storms when we feel our relationship with Porsche is being taken for granted, abused, and mis-used.
The fact of the matter is every one of us could be driving another make of automobile right now, but we've chosen to drive a Porsche. We do that because we expect just a little bit more from the people behind the brand. They, like us, are supposed to be passionate about the thrill of partaking in a luxury that requires a higher reach, a higher standard, a better understanding of what it means to enter into a life-long relationship with a manufacturer.
But it doesn't mean we're here forever, obliged to take the abuse of dealers and managerial suits over-stepping their place and downright forgetting themselves.
The truth of the matter is this: Porsche is not the only game in town. There is nothing stopping us from sticking an ad on Autotrader and liquidating all of our vehicles if we've reached a collective understanding that Porsche no longer speaks the same language we do -- from the moment we extend our hand to introduce ourselves to a salesperson, to the moment we recommend a Porsche to that close friend.
We could be driving BMWs, Ferraris, Maseratis, Audis, Mercedes-Benz, Lamborghini, Lotus, and several other types of cars and enjoying nearly as much fun -- potentially without all of the hassle, baggage, and narcissism of those handing us the keys and telling us "you're on your own, it's not our problem anymore, our understanding is you've had a mis-understanding, goodbye and good luck."
When you do that to someone in the brotherhood and sisterhood, you do it to all of us. The offense taken is burdened by ever Porsche owner who has made a life for him or herself to drive the crest, wear the shirt, pay for the race ticket, and embrace the people who stand behind the label.
So fear not. I believe there will be a remedy. But you have to let Rennlist and other communities like it do what they do best: leverage a voice that reverberates exponentially. It's obvious those against you have called your bluff and the bluff of the Porsche community.
If that's how they feel about us, that's all I need to know about why it may be time for all of us to move on to something else. If Lozzy wanted a Chevrolet experience, he could have made his life far easier and bought a Chevrolet.
No question there are times when certain buyers simply cannot be satisfied. We've seen the photos however. The paint on that car is inexcusable, nevermind for a CPO car with under 10,000 miles. It looks like its been driven through a forest of rose bushes. It makes Earl Scheib look like Chip Foose. The only thing perfect about that finish is its perfectly misrepresented.
07-09-2013, 08:13 AM
#302
Most State governments provide a consumer protection hotline/department as part of their Atty. Gen.'s office. Forgive me if this has been raised previously. In my personal experience in these kinds of conflicts, State involvement can often get the wrongdoer to pay attention. Talk to your attorney, but I would also consider contacting the State Attorney's office alleging their action rises to the level criminal conduct, i.e. fraud and consider filing a criminal complaint.
07-09-2013, 10:22 AM
#303
Rennlist Member
Lozzy,
Where are things at? Haven't see a post form you so does this mean a solution is brewing?
I hope so but I have an idea.
What if, hypothetically, we all were to call BHP at say 10 am and ask for sales. Then politely asked a litany of detailed questions about cars listed on their site. Now, lets say we did this every day?
Not a suggestion... Just brainstorming here.
Where are things at? Haven't see a post form you so does this mean a solution is brewing?
I hope so but I have an idea.
What if, hypothetically, we all were to call BHP at say 10 am and ask for sales. Then politely asked a litany of detailed questions about cars listed on their site. Now, lets say we did this every day?
Not a suggestion... Just brainstorming here.
07-09-2013, 12:59 PM
#304
Rennlist Member
Lozzy, this is a long brain dump but bear with me....
I had a similar experience with a severe Porsche letdown a few years ago regarding the creation and delivery of a COA. It took several months to get a COA and every time they sent me one, they sent me a lousy incorrect COA for my 1988 911 Turbo with options such as a Tiptronic transmission and other relatively head-scratching items. The longer the process went on, the more inept and lousy the customer service got. I went through all of the proper channels that you tried to go through in order to resolve an issue that should have been resolved in hours or days, and not weeks and months.
Here is that thread in its entirety:
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...heres-why.html
After months of frustration and complete ignorance and apathy upon the part of 1-800-Porsche to send me a correct COA for my $100, I finally let loose on them and made what was a private struggle openly public.
It was only then that I actually started to get traction with the problem. When it was all said and done, I had someone from Porsche NA personally pick up the phone and publicly apologize for the complete incompetence and misdirection of the entire situation. He apologized on behalf of himself and PCNA and promised me he would be returning to Germany within a week and would personally look up my vehicle records and make certain I received a corrected COA expeditiously. He also promised -- at my request -- to review my case and use it as a training tool for those who failed beneath him to ensure something like it never happens again.
Whats the point of me telling you this? It wasn't me that finally got the problem resolved. It was the Porsche community that backed me up and "had my corner" from the get go. The resolution came because the public reputation hit was becoming problematic and someone finally realized that the perception and good will was worth far more than screwing up someone's COA five times. Unfortunately, the half a dozen people who I dealt with prior to the "solution provider" did not see the situation this way and chose to abuse my relationship.
Without the community here backing me up, I doubt anything would have changed and Id still be sitting here today, counting the growing pile of screwed up COAs, excuses, promised phone calls that went un-returned, and so on. And my problem was FAR less substantial than the one you are dealing with here.
My advice is continue to leverage your brothers and sisters here on Rennlist. This is where the real justice will be handed out. This is where the real leverage sits. Your attorney will send letters and ask for this and that, but we all know if attorneys actually end up in court -- nobody wins but the attorneys. Court is where people go to make attorneys rich and claim hollow victories and moral high ground -- usually with little or nothing to show for it when the dust settles.
Beverly Hills Porsche will eventually do the right thing. I believe that because they will reach a point where the public reputation hit they take will finally crack a ceiling where someone realizes the losses they are incurring from future sales, service, or recommendations will far exceed whatever "restitution" it will require to make you whole again and make your problem their problem for good and get you out from under this mess. When that pendulum finally swings -- no one can say for sure.
But the beauty of the Internet is nothing ever gets deleted. Even stuff that gets deleted. It's the fastest and most aggressive form of justice because its the courtroom of public opinion. Once a business digs themselves a hole so deep, its difficult to ever truly climb out. Don't kid yourself about Beverly Hills Porsche having enough sales to sell to movie stars all day and not care about us "little people". Us little people are what buy and service most vehicles. We are the most active people in the Porsche community. We are the ones that light candles under asses and start ****storms when we feel our relationship with Porsche is being taken for granted, abused, and mis-used.
The fact of the matter is every one of us could be driving another make of automobile right now, but we've chosen to drive a Porsche. We do that because we expect just a little bit more from the people behind the brand. They, like us, are supposed to be passionate about the thrill of partaking in a luxury that requires a higher reach, a higher standard, a better understanding of what it means to enter into a life-long relationship with a manufacturer.
But it doesn't mean we're here forever, obliged to take the abuse of dealers and managerial suits over-stepping their place and downright forgetting themselves.
The truth of the matter is this: Porsche is not the only game in town. There is nothing stopping us from sticking an ad on Autotrader and liquidating all of our vehicles if we've reached a collective understanding that Porsche no longer speaks the same language we do -- from the moment we extend our hand to introduce ourselves to a salesperson, to the moment we recommend a Porsche to that close friend.
We could be driving BMWs, Ferraris, Maseratis, Audis, Mercedes-Benz, Lamborghini, Lotus, and several other types of cars and enjoying nearly as much fun -- potentially without all of the hassle, baggage, and narcissism of those handing us the keys and telling us "you're on your own, it's not our problem anymore, our understanding is you've had a mis-understanding, goodbye and good luck."
When you do that to someone in the brotherhood and sisterhood, you do it to all of us. The offense taken is burdened by ever Porsche owner who has made a life for him or herself to drive the crest, wear the shirt, pay for the race ticket, and embrace the people who stand behind the label.
So fear not. I believe there will be a remedy. But you have to let Rennlist and other communities like it do what they do best: leverage a voice that reverberates exponentially. It's obvious those against you have called your bluff and the bluff of the Porsche community.
If that's how they feel about us, that's all I need to know about why it may be time for all of us to move on to something else. If Lozzy wanted a Chevrolet experience, he could have made his life far easier and bought a Chevrolet.
No question there are times when certain buyers simply cannot be satisfied. We've seen the photos however. The paint on that car is inexcusable, nevermind for a CPO car with under 10,000 miles. It looks like its been driven through a forest of rose bushes. It makes Earl Scheib look like Chip Foose. The only thing perfect about that finish is its perfectly misrepresented.
I had a similar experience with a severe Porsche letdown a few years ago regarding the creation and delivery of a COA. It took several months to get a COA and every time they sent me one, they sent me a lousy incorrect COA for my 1988 911 Turbo with options such as a Tiptronic transmission and other relatively head-scratching items. The longer the process went on, the more inept and lousy the customer service got. I went through all of the proper channels that you tried to go through in order to resolve an issue that should have been resolved in hours or days, and not weeks and months.
Here is that thread in its entirety:
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...heres-why.html
After months of frustration and complete ignorance and apathy upon the part of 1-800-Porsche to send me a correct COA for my $100, I finally let loose on them and made what was a private struggle openly public.
It was only then that I actually started to get traction with the problem. When it was all said and done, I had someone from Porsche NA personally pick up the phone and publicly apologize for the complete incompetence and misdirection of the entire situation. He apologized on behalf of himself and PCNA and promised me he would be returning to Germany within a week and would personally look up my vehicle records and make certain I received a corrected COA expeditiously. He also promised -- at my request -- to review my case and use it as a training tool for those who failed beneath him to ensure something like it never happens again.
Whats the point of me telling you this? It wasn't me that finally got the problem resolved. It was the Porsche community that backed me up and "had my corner" from the get go. The resolution came because the public reputation hit was becoming problematic and someone finally realized that the perception and good will was worth far more than screwing up someone's COA five times. Unfortunately, the half a dozen people who I dealt with prior to the "solution provider" did not see the situation this way and chose to abuse my relationship.
Without the community here backing me up, I doubt anything would have changed and Id still be sitting here today, counting the growing pile of screwed up COAs, excuses, promised phone calls that went un-returned, and so on. And my problem was FAR less substantial than the one you are dealing with here.
My advice is continue to leverage your brothers and sisters here on Rennlist. This is where the real justice will be handed out. This is where the real leverage sits. Your attorney will send letters and ask for this and that, but we all know if attorneys actually end up in court -- nobody wins but the attorneys. Court is where people go to make attorneys rich and claim hollow victories and moral high ground -- usually with little or nothing to show for it when the dust settles.
Beverly Hills Porsche will eventually do the right thing. I believe that because they will reach a point where the public reputation hit they take will finally crack a ceiling where someone realizes the losses they are incurring from future sales, service, or recommendations will far exceed whatever "restitution" it will require to make you whole again and make your problem their problem for good and get you out from under this mess. When that pendulum finally swings -- no one can say for sure.
But the beauty of the Internet is nothing ever gets deleted. Even stuff that gets deleted. It's the fastest and most aggressive form of justice because its the courtroom of public opinion. Once a business digs themselves a hole so deep, its difficult to ever truly climb out. Don't kid yourself about Beverly Hills Porsche having enough sales to sell to movie stars all day and not care about us "little people". Us little people are what buy and service most vehicles. We are the most active people in the Porsche community. We are the ones that light candles under asses and start ****storms when we feel our relationship with Porsche is being taken for granted, abused, and mis-used.
The fact of the matter is every one of us could be driving another make of automobile right now, but we've chosen to drive a Porsche. We do that because we expect just a little bit more from the people behind the brand. They, like us, are supposed to be passionate about the thrill of partaking in a luxury that requires a higher reach, a higher standard, a better understanding of what it means to enter into a life-long relationship with a manufacturer.
But it doesn't mean we're here forever, obliged to take the abuse of dealers and managerial suits over-stepping their place and downright forgetting themselves.
The truth of the matter is this: Porsche is not the only game in town. There is nothing stopping us from sticking an ad on Autotrader and liquidating all of our vehicles if we've reached a collective understanding that Porsche no longer speaks the same language we do -- from the moment we extend our hand to introduce ourselves to a salesperson, to the moment we recommend a Porsche to that close friend.
We could be driving BMWs, Ferraris, Maseratis, Audis, Mercedes-Benz, Lamborghini, Lotus, and several other types of cars and enjoying nearly as much fun -- potentially without all of the hassle, baggage, and narcissism of those handing us the keys and telling us "you're on your own, it's not our problem anymore, our understanding is you've had a mis-understanding, goodbye and good luck."
When you do that to someone in the brotherhood and sisterhood, you do it to all of us. The offense taken is burdened by ever Porsche owner who has made a life for him or herself to drive the crest, wear the shirt, pay for the race ticket, and embrace the people who stand behind the label.
So fear not. I believe there will be a remedy. But you have to let Rennlist and other communities like it do what they do best: leverage a voice that reverberates exponentially. It's obvious those against you have called your bluff and the bluff of the Porsche community.
If that's how they feel about us, that's all I need to know about why it may be time for all of us to move on to something else. If Lozzy wanted a Chevrolet experience, he could have made his life far easier and bought a Chevrolet.
No question there are times when certain buyers simply cannot be satisfied. We've seen the photos however. The paint on that car is inexcusable, nevermind for a CPO car with under 10,000 miles. It looks like its been driven through a forest of rose bushes. It makes Earl Scheib look like Chip Foose. The only thing perfect about that finish is its perfectly misrepresented.
My advice would be is to document everything. Who you talked to ,date, time, what was said, what was promised. The more info you have the more power you will have over Beverly Hills Porsche.
Keep fighting and good luck!
07-09-2013, 01:10 PM
#305
I am not sure if this was suggested yet but around here, there are local news tip hotline that you can call and the local reporter will harassed the dealer for interviews regarding the issues. Call every news channel out there. I've seen the same problem covered on multiple news station. This would be really bad publicity for them. A few times, problems were resolved this way.
07-09-2013, 02:24 PM
#306
That is what I did with Audi. In my long documented letter as to all of the issue's I also stated that I will be contacting a local news agency and a day after selling the car I got a Fedex letter stating to go by my local Audi dealer turn in the car and pick up a check. Got the car back from the buyer after paying them $1000 took car in and picked up check! Yeah I would get all documents and photos send to Porsche requiring a signature for the documents.
07-09-2013, 02:34 PM
#307
These days "you have to fight for everything" PO aggression is very important in this matter. As an example I followed this story from beginning to the end, a true nightmare: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...16-months.html
07-09-2013, 02:46 PM
#308
nice job posting your info on YELP.
you're currently #2 review on page 1.
my suggestion: get everyone on rennlist to click on your review as "useful"(i just did it) and get it to #1.
then get email link to dealer's general mgmt, as well as to PCNA.
good luck.
PL
you're currently #2 review on page 1.
my suggestion: get everyone on rennlist to click on your review as "useful"(i just did it) and get it to #1.
then get email link to dealer's general mgmt, as well as to PCNA.
good luck.
PL
07-09-2013, 03:29 PM
#309
Well the latest is BHP actually refused to sign for the registered letter from my laywer. How classy is that. So I guess we have to serve them with it.
Good comments, input and support. Very much appreciated. I know this is a first world problem but it's still a bit frustrating, saddening, worrying...
Good comments, input and support. Very much appreciated. I know this is a first world problem but it's still a bit frustrating, saddening, worrying...
07-09-2013, 03:49 PM
#310
VOTE!!! ----> http://www.yelp.com/biz/beverly-hill...-beverly-hills
07-09-2013, 03:56 PM
#311
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Great idea! Quick, easy, and free!
VOTE!!! ----> http://www.yelp.com/biz/beverly-hill...-beverly-hills
VOTE!!! ----> http://www.yelp.com/biz/beverly-hill...-beverly-hills
07-09-2013, 04:27 PM
#313
Rennlist Member
I had a poor experience with an out of state Porsche dealer once on a new car. Bad paint and the dealer had tripped the title one year earlier. Bottom line my local dealer, Porsche of the Village, worked with PCNA on my behalf and got a settlement for me. I've purchased 2 new cars from POV since then and I wouldn't by a valve cap from the other dealer.
