Lozzy997

Hopefully this is an appropriate topic, let me know if not. No names are going to be mentioned, that isn't the purpose here.

As some of you have seen from another post I took delivery of a low miles, CPO, 2011 GTS last week. Sight unseen but the salesman assured me it was perfect (I traded my F430 and we compared conditions on the 'phone - I was very thorough when explaining the condition of my car).

When the car arrived it was a little more "used" than I expected for the miles - very badly machine polished, dinged rear wheel, weird stain on the rear bumper, both doors dinged on the edges, hood cloth scraped. Weird clutch burning smell too, but that went away..

I talked to the sales manager and he said they would contribute to the fix if I could find out how much (I think he was thinking a few hundred $'s). I took the car to my detailer this morning and the prognosis is not good:

The paint is down to a point where it can't safely be polished anymore (he showed me the gauge readings and compared them to another car in his shop). Polishing would be at my risk, would probably lead to some respray and would leave the paint so thin it would need to be clear-filmed for eternity. The rear bumper has been badly resprayed (explains the stain and overspray). The wheels have been etched by wheel cleaner (as well as dinged). No suggestion for the door end dings (repaint). No suggestion for the hood (new hood). His quote was the car is poor wholesale, certainly not CPO retail. It's one of the worst he's ever seen.

It's funny, 'cos at a glance in the shade it looks quite nice :/

I gave the sales manager a quick readout on the phone, but it was his day off and we're going to chat again tomorrow. He listened, did not get defensive or argumentative, in fact he's been very decent so far.

I guess I have a few questions.

Anyone encountered this before, if so what happened?

Does CPO imply anything about the cosmetics?

Any thoughts on remediation, is my detailer being too conservative - can you polish thin paint etc.?

Any other input

PM's appreciated if you really feel that's more appropriate given the potential for legal shenanigans

Thanks in advance Rennlisters.

7500rpm

Sorry about your experience. Unfortunately, there are too many unethical sales people and stealerships. I once travelled 3-1/2 hours (one way) to view a car after being told on the phone that the car was in excellent, accident free, original condition and that I would be totally satisfied with it. What a huge mistake ...........

street rod

Sounds like the car is beyond normal repair. A full respray is probably needed and also IMO not an option. I would flat out ask the salesman to take the car back or give you the option of using the full credit towards any other car they have or that you want to order. I don't know the actual legal answer here but that's what I would try for. I really hope it works out for you.

RennlistTomE

Just me, I wouldn't open negotiations asking to return the car for credit toward another purchase. I MIGHT settle there if I was interested in ordering a new car.

I'd ask them to cancel the transaction. Open with something like "Very clearly the condition of the car is not as described to me. And (given the subsequent inspection) it's probably beyond what you anticipated as well. You don't want a dissatisfied customer. And that's not what I want to be either. So, let's make this problem go away.....save us both a lot of hassle."

If you've dealt with the guys before, they'll likely offer the 'credit' option. But then you give up any bargaining power you had.

I'd counter that with "No, this (condition) is pretty serious. I really think it's better if we start all over." Keep saying 'Start over', then move to 'Cancel the transaction. It's bad for both of us.'

Good luck.

Lozzy997

Thanks guys.

mattyf

That doesn't sound good. Not to rub it in, but a PPI would have caught most of that. Even a fellow forum member check out would have helped.

I'd try and cancel the deal and get the Ferrari back ASAP, before they drive the $hit out of it.

How far away was the car? Is it out of state? How much was shipping? You might have to eat it on the transport costs.

I'd try and be nice, since you don't have much leverage. I don't think CPO has any cosmetic qualifiers. Something about no more than 2 consecutive panels sprayed, but I think that's it.

Farfelc2s

I had a similar experience w an Auth P dealer. I gave him an estimate to repair as he stated. Offered me half, then offered to take it back. I did, but he already sold my PTS Blue C4S in 2 days which he said may take him a long time.

Lozzy997

Didn't think a PPI would be needed from a Porsche dealer on a CPO car, you live and learn

They sprayed the rear bumper and over-sprayed all the adjacent panels, does that count lol.

It's in CA, they charged me $1k for shipping back and forth.

I just hope their "detailers" haven't touched my old car yet !!

sandwedge

Did the salesman assure you the car was perfect via phone or email? He clearly misrepresented (lied about) the condition of the car and having that in writing might be helpful going forward. I will fall over if the manager of this dealership doesn't take the car back with few if any further questions asked given what you've provided him with.

theporscheguy

I would definitely get the transaction cancelled and start over, with another dealer.

Lozzy997

It was by phone unfortunately, but I'd like to think there is some honor left in this industry.

Here's a pic of the stain on the rear, it's under the clear coat, it's so odd, but there's not enough paint left to polish it out. Just one of the many issues alas.

It's about 5" tall by 6" wide. Just to show I'm not being OCD

SnP

My experience of late is that there is no honor left among P-car dealers.

Anything you don't verify, you should assume that it's going to be wrong or subpar.

It's sad but it's reality.

Verify, verify, verify.

beden1

When buying a car sight unseen, always have a paper trail, most likely emails. I bought a car in FL while living in PA. I had the dealer send me a complete condition report in writing.

Two years ago, I bought a 2008 CPO BMW M3 from a local BMW dealer. I first saw it while it was raining. The next time I saw it, it was covered in pollen. I went to negotiate the deal and it was in their detail shop that had poor lighting, surprisingly.

As part of the negotiation, and before buying the car, the dealer replaced 2 wheels that had damage, 2 tires that had bubbles on the sidewalls, and resprayed the front bumper. They said they did all of the maintenence on the car since it was new for their customer who is a prominent figure in Philly. They also told me it had never been in an accident.

I drove it for 2 weeks before taking it into my garage for a complete detail that I was doing on the car. In the middle of the detail, I saw where it had been repaired from an accident involving the rear quarter panel and trunk/bumper.

Long story short, the dealer gave me my money back after I told them they had misrepresented the car.

Lozzy997

Thanks for the input. I'm talking to them tomorrow so we'll see how things turn out. My detailer is going to write me a report outlining the issues with pics, including pics of the paint depth readings, so it will be tough to argue the facts, but the accountability is a different matter.

sandwedge

Just me but i would be tempted to share with them how the CPO process is advertised by PCNA. Some serious grandstanding here that your dealer is either not familiar with or takes issue with given the way they choose to comply with it.