End is Near: EPA versus Porsche
02-26-2010, 05:30 PM
#92
Poseur
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Gees--we get off topic quickly here!
Okay--here's another link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Petition
You all know Edward Teller. He was stupid, right? (See also, Manhattan Project).
Okay--here's another link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Petition
You all know Edward Teller. He was stupid, right? (See also, Manhattan Project).
02-26-2010, 05:34 PM
#93
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sarasota, FL. Home of Florida Man.
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Although off topic. I like to see the differences of opinions around a group of people that share a common denominator, Porsche's. Very cool when you think of it.
We are witnessing the beginning efforts to try and shift consumer buying decisions back to North American soil. I suggest that the Auto industry is the easiest because it commands so much revenue and we have the plant/labour infrastructure to support more work on our soils. Other industries, soft goods, electronics and household appliances will be more difficult, due to wage costs difference's and environmental waste regulations, etc.
As we have witnessed there have been more and more examples of foreign built products coming under fire as being shabby and assembled under poor human rights, etc, etc. This, along with the current economic landscape, is going to slowly change the thought process of the consumer when they reach in their pockets.
We've always seen manufacturers label their products as, "built in the usa" but we've not yet seen a Retailer openly market that the products they sell are built in the USA. This will also begin to change, as our Kids are willing to spend more money for products that have this awareness.
The biggest challenge is to make the connection between cheaper products at the cash register and the loss of lower paying factory work to other countries.
As I said, great bunch of people on this forum and most with above average household incomes. How many of us spend the same % more on everyday household products, as the % that we paid above the average cost of a decent US built sportscar??? wow that was hard to say without spitting my latte on my toshiba.
We are witnessing the beginning efforts to try and shift consumer buying decisions back to North American soil. I suggest that the Auto industry is the easiest because it commands so much revenue and we have the plant/labour infrastructure to support more work on our soils. Other industries, soft goods, electronics and household appliances will be more difficult, due to wage costs difference's and environmental waste regulations, etc.
As we have witnessed there have been more and more examples of foreign built products coming under fire as being shabby and assembled under poor human rights, etc, etc. This, along with the current economic landscape, is going to slowly change the thought process of the consumer when they reach in their pockets.
We've always seen manufacturers label their products as, "built in the usa" but we've not yet seen a Retailer openly market that the products they sell are built in the USA. This will also begin to change, as our Kids are willing to spend more money for products that have this awareness.
The biggest challenge is to make the connection between cheaper products at the cash register and the loss of lower paying factory work to other countries.
As I said, great bunch of people on this forum and most with above average household incomes. How many of us spend the same % more on everyday household products, as the % that we paid above the average cost of a decent US built sportscar??? wow that was hard to say without spitting my latte on my toshiba.
when it comes to toys though (we have small kids), we have a strong bias toward made in the US and it's not just the lead poisoning but a general bias toward higher quality and safety.
good question, IMO. given the opportunity on buying domestic versus foreign, we'll generally take the domestic if it's on par with the foreign.
02-26-2010, 07:28 PM
#95
Rennlist Member
Although off topic. I like to see the differences of opinions around a group of people that share a common denominator, Porsche's. Very cool when you think of it.
We are witnessing the beginning efforts to try and shift consumer buying decisions back to North American soil. I suggest that the Auto industry is the easiest because it commands so much revenue and we have the plant/labour infrastructure to support more work on our soils. Other industries, soft goods, electronics and household appliances will be more difficult, due to wage costs difference's and environmental waste regulations, etc.
As we have witnessed there have been more and more examples of foreign built products coming under fire as being shabby and assembled under poor human rights, etc, etc. This, along with the current economic landscape, is going to slowly change the thought process of the consumer when they reach in their pockets.
We've always seen manufacturers label their products as, "built in the usa" but we've not yet seen a Retailer openly market that the products they sell are built in the USA. This will also begin to change, as our Kids are willing to spend more money for products that have this awareness.
The biggest challenge is to make the connection between cheaper products at the cash register and the loss of lower paying factory work to other countries.
We are witnessing the beginning efforts to try and shift consumer buying decisions back to North American soil. I suggest that the Auto industry is the easiest because it commands so much revenue and we have the plant/labour infrastructure to support more work on our soils. Other industries, soft goods, electronics and household appliances will be more difficult, due to wage costs difference's and environmental waste regulations, etc.
As we have witnessed there have been more and more examples of foreign built products coming under fire as being shabby and assembled under poor human rights, etc, etc. This, along with the current economic landscape, is going to slowly change the thought process of the consumer when they reach in their pockets.
We've always seen manufacturers label their products as, "built in the usa" but we've not yet seen a Retailer openly market that the products they sell are built in the USA. This will also begin to change, as our Kids are willing to spend more money for products that have this awareness.
The biggest challenge is to make the connection between cheaper products at the cash register and the loss of lower paying factory work to other countries.
I actually don't think that's the case, people nowadays are used to quick and short lived satisfaction, more is better, and are not used to pay more for quality to keep it longer.
That's how my parents lived and I like to follow but it's more and more difficult with current economic situation and the great job manufacturers do, obsoleting their own products every year. For instance, no matter what TV you buy today, next year something better/cheaper comes out! I remmember Sony TVs used to stay the same for a few years without much upgrade and when you bought one, it lasted 5years+ minimum!
Now, kids want stuff for cheap, that can be tossed away in a year for the new stuff... which is not possible with quality products made in US, or Germany for that matter!
02-26-2010, 09:28 PM
#96
Drifting
Wow, this thread really took off.
Yes, the 2016 changes are "happening". How will the automakers comply? Smaller engines, lighter cars. Cars that have 6 cylinder power plants now, will move to 4 cylinder turbocharged powerplants. It's going to happen. Weights will come down - for alot of manufacturers the weight reduction will come out of the safety margin for the car. More people will die in those cars, period. For buyers with more $$$s, you'll get a safer car because manufacturers of higher cost autos will be able to use more expensive composites to reduce weights and keep today's safety margins intact, their customers can afford the higher prices. Hyundai can't do that, BMW can.
Automakers are also hoping that pure electrics (the Volt) will get dramatically high EPA ratings, since they use zero gasoline within the battery range. A super high EPA rating on those cars will help the manufacturers meet the fleet average.
I think Porsche will be fine. But what happens to big V8 powered cars, I think they are finished. If you are the type to dabble in cars that might represent good investments years down the road - buy yourself one of the last ZR1s to come down the line before these regulations hit.
Yes, the 2016 changes are "happening". How will the automakers comply? Smaller engines, lighter cars. Cars that have 6 cylinder power plants now, will move to 4 cylinder turbocharged powerplants. It's going to happen. Weights will come down - for alot of manufacturers the weight reduction will come out of the safety margin for the car. More people will die in those cars, period. For buyers with more $$$s, you'll get a safer car because manufacturers of higher cost autos will be able to use more expensive composites to reduce weights and keep today's safety margins intact, their customers can afford the higher prices. Hyundai can't do that, BMW can.
Automakers are also hoping that pure electrics (the Volt) will get dramatically high EPA ratings, since they use zero gasoline within the battery range. A super high EPA rating on those cars will help the manufacturers meet the fleet average.
I think Porsche will be fine. But what happens to big V8 powered cars, I think they are finished. If you are the type to dabble in cars that might represent good investments years down the road - buy yourself one of the last ZR1s to come down the line before these regulations hit.
02-26-2010, 10:00 PM
#98
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
What's the EPA rating on Porsche bicycles? Maybe they'll count
02-26-2010, 10:04 PM
#99
Ordered my Turbo S was thinking about waiting about month Ago. Glad I pulled trigger.
Still have to think that Porsche will be able to increase MPG on small cars maybe shove a Hybrid or too in get up high enough to be granted a wavier due to small amount of cars made. Maybe after Fall elections some common sense will come to DC Boy is that a dream.
BFW Porsche is way ahead of Ferrari and those gas guzzlers V12's
Still have to think that Porsche will be able to increase MPG on small cars maybe shove a Hybrid or too in get up high enough to be granted a wavier due to small amount of cars made. Maybe after Fall elections some common sense will come to DC Boy is that a dream.BFW Porsche is way ahead of Ferrari and those gas guzzlers V12's
02-26-2010, 10:57 PM
#101
Race Director
If you're interested in real information on the CAFE standards, rather than speculation or the ideologically biased BS that has been featured in portions of this thread, you can check out this article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpora...e_Fuel_Economy
02-26-2010, 10:59 PM
#102
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
02-26-2010, 11:57 PM
#103
Nordschleife Master
just a thought. I will keep buying toys with the worst carbon footprint I can afford. Fun is the the main reason but if I **** off someone that is a bonus.
02-27-2010, 12:18 AM
#104
By DC boy I assume you mean George Bush
Should have been DC. Boy that is a dreammeaning all of congress and Sen. and of course President also. Hoping for more common sense from Washington period. Dont really care who it is. But that would be a dream. They (no party) Will ever listen to our needs. Only their needs.
02-27-2010, 12:38 AM
#105
Drifting
Well if that is confirmed true, then unless there is some change in DC before the law goes into effect - its over. This brand is a symbol of "the rich", so there is no way there is going to be an exemption granted by people who demonize success and anyone viewed as a "high earner" in the private sector, which is who buys these cars.