End is Near: EPA versus Porsche
03-11-2010, 04:14 PM
#151
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sarasota, FL. Home of Florida Man.
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what's interesting is the that US regulations seem to be harsher on emissions - whereas european regs are tougher on mileage - hence the diesel popularity there.
unfortunately, there's not very much diesel refining capicity in the US and the oil companies will lobby hard for gasoline to be the engine of choice.
nobody knows what will happen, but i have a lot of faith in the technology advancing to keep us having fun for years of fun.
unfortunately, there's not very much diesel refining capicity in the US and the oil companies will lobby hard for gasoline to be the engine of choice.
nobody knows what will happen, but i have a lot of faith in the technology advancing to keep us having fun for years of fun.
04-01-2010, 03:13 PM
#152
Rennlist Member
http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-fede...es-passed.html
New Fuel economy guidelines were just passed.
The new standards include an EPA regulated emission output of 250 grams of carbon dioxide per mile for vehicles sold in 2016 – a figure that will be equal to expected output by vehicles that match the 34.1 mpg standard. This EPA regulation comes as the EPA issued its first ever rules on greenhouse gas emissions by vehicles.
New Fuel economy guidelines were just passed.
The new standards include an EPA regulated emission output of 250 grams of carbon dioxide per mile for vehicles sold in 2016 – a figure that will be equal to expected output by vehicles that match the 34.1 mpg standard. This EPA regulation comes as the EPA issued its first ever rules on greenhouse gas emissions by vehicles.
04-01-2010, 06:42 PM
#153
Race Director
Just saw something on CNN at lunch. I could not hear the TV but I saw the words that all cars will have to get minimum 36mpg and light trucks 30mpg.
04-02-2010, 12:29 AM
#155
Drifting
It's a fleet average.
But as discussed up thread - Porsche isn't in the VW fleet because the law was passed before the merger. Unless Porsche gets a waiver to be part of VW, they cannot make the 2016 standards on their own - and the future gas guzzler fines will be huge, so they can't just toss a $2K charge on the sticker like today and pass it along.
But in the end - we are all "screwed". The EPA now has control over CO2 emissions in the US, and they can use that power (without additional specific congressional approval) to regulate anything having to do with energy - what we drive, how far we drive, how much energy your house uses, what kind of lightbulbs and appliances you can buy, everything and anything you can think of that uses energy.
There will come a time when people who appreciate full sized/powered cars - will be buying pre-owned cars for the rest of their lives. I can see that day coming very quickly. The best gasoline powered cars ever to be produced - are being produced right now, and over the next 5 model years. 10-15 years from now, the cars produced during this period will be viewed as "treasures" by anyone who has a affinity for automobiles.
But as discussed up thread - Porsche isn't in the VW fleet because the law was passed before the merger. Unless Porsche gets a waiver to be part of VW, they cannot make the 2016 standards on their own - and the future gas guzzler fines will be huge, so they can't just toss a $2K charge on the sticker like today and pass it along.
But in the end - we are all "screwed". The EPA now has control over CO2 emissions in the US, and they can use that power (without additional specific congressional approval) to regulate anything having to do with energy - what we drive, how far we drive, how much energy your house uses, what kind of lightbulbs and appliances you can buy, everything and anything you can think of that uses energy.
There will come a time when people who appreciate full sized/powered cars - will be buying pre-owned cars for the rest of their lives. I can see that day coming very quickly. The best gasoline powered cars ever to be produced - are being produced right now, and over the next 5 model years. 10-15 years from now, the cars produced during this period will be viewed as "treasures" by anyone who has a affinity for automobiles.
Last edited by nyca; 04-02-2010 at 01:01 AM.
04-02-2010, 01:16 AM
#156
Nordschleife Master
It's a fleet average.
But as discussed up thread - Porsche isn't in the VW fleet because the law was passed before the merger. Unless Porsche gets a waiver to be part of VW, they cannot make the 2016 standards on their own - and the future gas guzzler fines will be huge, so they can't just toss a $2K charge on the sticker like today and pass it along.
But in the end - we are all "screwed". The EPA now has control over CO2 emissions in the US, and they can use that power (without additional specific congressional approval) to regulate anything having to do with energy - what we drive, how far we drive, how much energy your house uses, what kind of lightbulbs and appliances you can buy, everything and anything you can think of that uses energy.
There will come a time when people who appreciate full sized/powered cars - will be buying pre-owned cars for the rest of their lives. I can see that day coming very quickly. The best gasoline powered cars ever to be produced - are being produced right now, and over the next 5 model years. 10-15 years from now, the cars produced during this period will be viewed as "treasures" by anyone who has a affinity for automobiles.
But as discussed up thread - Porsche isn't in the VW fleet because the law was passed before the merger. Unless Porsche gets a waiver to be part of VW, they cannot make the 2016 standards on their own - and the future gas guzzler fines will be huge, so they can't just toss a $2K charge on the sticker like today and pass it along.
But in the end - we are all "screwed". The EPA now has control over CO2 emissions in the US, and they can use that power (without additional specific congressional approval) to regulate anything having to do with energy - what we drive, how far we drive, how much energy your house uses, what kind of lightbulbs and appliances you can buy, everything and anything you can think of that uses energy.
There will come a time when people who appreciate full sized/powered cars - will be buying pre-owned cars for the rest of their lives. I can see that day coming very quickly. The best gasoline powered cars ever to be produced - are being produced right now, and over the next 5 model years. 10-15 years from now, the cars produced during this period will be viewed as "treasures" by anyone who has a affinity for automobiles.
The EPA and all those who think CO2 is a pollutant should stop breathing immediately and leave us alone. I, for one, will continue to produce CO2 and I am pretty sure that my CO2 production will not cause any harm to the planet.
I also urge the President to immediately curtail his Air Force One traveling and reduce his fleet of heavy limos and SUVs.
04-02-2010, 02:15 AM
#157
Rennlist Member
It's a fleet average.
But as discussed up thread - Porsche isn't in the VW fleet because the law was passed before the merger. Unless Porsche gets a waiver to be part of VW, they cannot make the 2016 standards on their own - and the future gas guzzler fines will be huge, so they can't just toss a $2K charge on the sticker like today and pass it along.
But in the end - we are all "screwed". The EPA now has control over CO2 emissions in the US, and they can use that power (without additional specific congressional approval) to regulate anything having to do with energy - what we drive, how far we drive, how much energy your house uses, what kind of lightbulbs and appliances you can buy, everything and anything you can think of that uses energy.
There will come a time when people who appreciate full sized/powered cars - will be buying pre-owned cars for the rest of their lives. I can see that day coming very quickly. The best gasoline powered cars ever to be produced - are being produced right now, and over the next 5 model years. 10-15 years from now, the cars produced during this period will be viewed as "treasures" by anyone who has a affinity for automobiles.
But as discussed up thread - Porsche isn't in the VW fleet because the law was passed before the merger. Unless Porsche gets a waiver to be part of VW, they cannot make the 2016 standards on their own - and the future gas guzzler fines will be huge, so they can't just toss a $2K charge on the sticker like today and pass it along.
But in the end - we are all "screwed". The EPA now has control over CO2 emissions in the US, and they can use that power (without additional specific congressional approval) to regulate anything having to do with energy - what we drive, how far we drive, how much energy your house uses, what kind of lightbulbs and appliances you can buy, everything and anything you can think of that uses energy.
There will come a time when people who appreciate full sized/powered cars - will be buying pre-owned cars for the rest of their lives. I can see that day coming very quickly. The best gasoline powered cars ever to be produced - are being produced right now, and over the next 5 model years. 10-15 years from now, the cars produced during this period will be viewed as "treasures" by anyone who has a affinity for automobiles.
So we are going backwards in power. And Im sure exotics will have a spiritless, soundless, soulless 1000hp electric motor driven by an automatic (or 1 speed?) transmission. That day will suck.
04-02-2010, 03:00 PM
#158
Race Director
It's a fleet average.
But as discussed up thread - Porsche isn't in the VW fleet because the law was passed before the merger. Unless Porsche gets a waiver to be part of VW, they cannot make the 2016 standards on their own - and the future gas guzzler fines will be huge, so they can't just toss a $2K charge on the sticker like today and pass it along.
But as discussed up thread - Porsche isn't in the VW fleet because the law was passed before the merger. Unless Porsche gets a waiver to be part of VW, they cannot make the 2016 standards on their own - and the future gas guzzler fines will be huge, so they can't just toss a $2K charge on the sticker like today and pass it along.
Also, under the law, as an incentive to manufacturers who exceed the mileage standards, they will be allowed to sell mileage credits to other manufacturers who don't. Assuming the VW merger doesn't help directly, this could be a ray of hope for Porsche and other low volume performance car builders, albeit at a cost.
Last edited by Mike in CA; 04-02-2010 at 05:24 PM.
04-02-2010, 05:21 PM
#159
Drifting
Its a fleet average, and if and when Porsche AG merge with VAG ( or maybe the standard is that PCNA must merge with VWNA.. is it the corporate fleet at the parent company or the corporate fleet for the US based company)... in any case, once a merger is finalized, the average will apply. Whether the merger took place before or after the law doesn't make a difference.
The problem, clearly, is that there is still too much special interest bastardizing the system.
If the country was serious about this, we would stop playing games and there would be no cars vs light trucks standard. Light trucks would be subject to the same standard as cars, period. Otherwise, if light trucks get to be wasteful (and we all know that a large % of the light truck space is uses exactly the same way as cars ), then there should be a performance-car category as well.
The reports I'd heard, along with what Porsche was saying on the subject (a Wall Street Journal article from a week or so ago) was that the standards coming down the pipe are based also on the physical footprint or wheel-base of the cars. The problem there is that sports cars have a small wheel base, which, with the proposed bill, puts them in the same group as smaller economy cars, which is nuts. You cannot have a sports car in the same bracket as a Honda Civic, VW Golf, etc.
So long as ignorant politicians are exclusively writing the bills, we get such nonsense. Can we get any scientists and engineers on those bill writing teams? That should be a requirement so that at least one person knows what the F they are talking about.
The problem, clearly, is that there is still too much special interest bastardizing the system.
If the country was serious about this, we would stop playing games and there would be no cars vs light trucks standard. Light trucks would be subject to the same standard as cars, period. Otherwise, if light trucks get to be wasteful (and we all know that a large % of the light truck space is uses exactly the same way as cars ), then there should be a performance-car category as well.
The reports I'd heard, along with what Porsche was saying on the subject (a Wall Street Journal article from a week or so ago) was that the standards coming down the pipe are based also on the physical footprint or wheel-base of the cars. The problem there is that sports cars have a small wheel base, which, with the proposed bill, puts them in the same group as smaller economy cars, which is nuts. You cannot have a sports car in the same bracket as a Honda Civic, VW Golf, etc.
So long as ignorant politicians are exclusively writing the bills, we get such nonsense. Can we get any scientists and engineers on those bill writing teams? That should be a requirement so that at least one person knows what the F they are talking about.
04-02-2010, 06:59 PM
#161
Rennlist Member
Imagine going to a track day in the future. All these cars racing around. And what's that I hear???.....Silence. Maybe some electrical motors whining. About it. That's pretty depressing.
04-02-2010, 07:04 PM
#162
Rennlist Member
And as a last stand, Even cars like the S2000 would be better than electric cars. They don't redline cars when doing the EPA mpg testing. So at low rev's you have no power but pull 30mph, but once you are over 6k rpm, VTEC KICKS IN YO! And then you have a ton of power and probably get 15mpg. lol Obviously torque delivery sucks on an engine like this. But I'd take one of those cars over an electric car as a sports car to drive hard.
04-02-2010, 07:27 PM
#163
04-03-2010, 12:04 AM
#165
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
makes no sense, another way to cap and trade by hamstringing american companies, and passing all those costs to us, should change by 2013, I hope....