bradyb

Let's do all we can to make sure entrepreneurial smarts, pioneer spirit, and free enterprise eventually win this game. There's nothing wrong with a little help from Big Momma now and then but in the US things look like they're going too far. Hearing people in our government hint that private business is dead and they are the only hope is just crap. People came to this country to escape what we're heading towards and I'll be damned if I'm going to turn over more of my freedoms to a small group of freaks that think they know what's best.

So.... Viva la Capitalism! Now it's a beautiful Saturday and I gotta try my best to ignore my family and get back to work so I can pay my tax bill this year (you know, so the less fortunate don't have to work if they don't feel up to it).

sjfehr

This has nothing to do with the current administration. The last 4 have all been pushing emissions controls and mileage. Besides, the 918 is proving that mileage and performance need not necessarily be at odds.

People predicted the death of the high performance sports car in the 70s, but look what we have now- it added cost and hampered performance a bit, but smog has disappeared nearly completely from the western world and we're all better off because of it. And not only that, but you can get brand new 300hp NA cars for $23k right off the lot. I'll gladly trade emissions controls for the ability to drive with the top down on my cab.

With gas prices on the rise, switching to PHEV or EV really does make a lot of sense. We won't need a gas guzzler tax if hits $5/gallon, the market will drive that transition all by itself.

nyca

Yes, the lesson to be learned from the 1970s was that the regulation outstripped the ability of the technology to deal with it. So it took decades before decent autos were produced again, the period in the late 70s and 80s featured some pretty bad, underpowered cars.

The same thing is happening again now (in 2016). Cars need to be lighter, and composite material technology just isn't ready yet for typically priced cars. So weight reduction will come out of the safety margin - more people will die on the roads as a result of the 2016 regulations - and when it happens, I am sure the Federal Gov't will be there to lower the national speed limit to 55.

jsmirand

Go to downtown Manila or other large cities in China, where you can literally see the smog across the intersection - pedestrians wearing masks to go to work - at the end of the day, your white shirt is liteally stained with smog - its f&*&**ng disgusting.

I am perfectly happy paying more for the emissions technology that enables us to drive the fastest Porsche's ever made, even as the smog in large cities across the US have gone down from the levels seen in the 70's.

So yes, in balance, some level of regulation that maintains environmental standards are good.

If you believe in no regulation, take a trip to some large sh&thole mega-polluted mega-city in Asia and I suspect that will change your mind in a hurry.

nyca

The smog in china is caused mostly by coal fired electric plants. The current round of auto regulations aren't designed to reduce "smog" - new ULEV and SULEV cars hardly produce any smog at all, they haven't for many years. The current regulatory track is designed to reduce CO2, and the only way to do that is to improve MPG. CO2 isn't a pollutant, not in the real scientific world anyway.

Porsche can't meet the 2016 EPA regulations not because their cars produce to much "smog" - they can't meet them because their cars don't get sufficient MPG. The "smog" problem vis-a-vis auto emissions was solved a long time ago (poorly maintained older cars being the exception), this is totally different thing now.

rpalomo

its a lot of talk but somehow i dont believe it will push through..can it?! really?!

Master Deep

Yea I remember when Clarkson first tested the 997 turbo and said that the air going into the car is more toxic than the air coming out of it. He called it a vacuum cleaner. lol

But there is no way Porsche is going to get their cars to 40+ mpg. I remember that they might be making the boxster a lighter 4-cylinder car. That would entirely kill its appeal for me. I understand Porsche's back in the day were 4 cylinders. But they sound like crap. Who want's their sports car to sound like a corolla? So unless they fit some amazing KERS system, they need to downsize the engine and/or add hybrid power while cutting weight.

All car makers have a few options. In addition to cutting weight, they must have:

1) Smaller engine
2) Hybrid
3) Plug-in Electric
4) Diesel

I don't really see any other ways for any car company to build their new cars.

Applejacks

It amazed me that the companies that make what are essentially expensive toys should have to comply with the same rules as companies that produce vehicles used as typical daily drivers. How often do you see a Porsche, Ferrari or Lambo out on the road. Yet you can not drive even a short distance without seeing countless SUV's and extended cab trucks. I understand the need for overall greater efficiency, but Porsche does not produce enough cars, compared to the major automakers, to have their numbers impact the overall average fuel economy of all vehicles on the road.

nyca

The problem for Porsche is a beauracratic one - the law was enacted before the VW mergers, and so they will not allow Porsche to average their cars in the VW fleet MPG. Unless they get a waiver, they are going to hard to use some "tricks" to import Porsches to the US after 2016.

Master Deep

Porsche is a smart company though. So I'm waiting to see what they will magically pull out of their hat.

No one expected the 918 Spyder. The most profitable automaker is not going to simply die off. But the question is, will they still be able to retain Porsche DNA and traits in post-2016 cars.

brendo

don't forget, the law has not been passed - it's proposed

secondly, the MY 1990 standards are still in effect - at 27.5 mpg, hence the huge progress in the past decades increasing HP at the expense of mpg.

set reasonably, this will probably not end up being such a bad thing - http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/cafe/overview.htm

after all, even a honda accord v6 has 271 hp.

sjfehr

So, if Porsche only averages 30mpg instead of 34mpg, they have to pay a $400/car fine? Somehow I don't see this killing them.

nyca

No, the law has passed. Read upthread. The issue is that when the law came into effect, Porsche was an independent car company. The EPA is enforcing the letter of the law, not allowing the fact that they are now part of the VW group, to average their MPG into that fleet.

This is real - if nothing happens by 2016, Porsche will have to import their cars in a different way.

brendo

^ i don't think so.

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=62162

from Feb of this year:

bradyb

Unless the EPA's labeling of CO2 being a health hazard can be turned around then the gas-powered engine seems doomed anyway, right? The US gov seems pretty busy tearing down industry these days but with no open plans to connect the electrical grids and build safe nuke plants. Seems you'd be smoking something if you think solar and wind are the only answer.

I'd buy a Tesla or an electric P-car if we had solid long-term power to support these cars. I'm likely missing something but the threat of more taxes through upcoming laws seems like electricity prices will inevitably go up - killing plug-in cars - unless congress can get gas to $7+/gal which they seem to be working on as well.

Regardless, there are big changes ahead for the car industry no doubt and I'm trying to keep positive. These car companies are no saints but it seems they are under constant new attacks by bureaucrats blinded by their spread-the-wealth-obey-or-pay ideologies.