texass4

I own a 2011 base 6MT coupe. If my source is right, they made 840 base coupes total in 2011. Worldwide. No idea how many were manual vs. PDK, but apparently 6 speed cars across the board for 997.2 were produced in very low numbers. That's a very rare bird indeed. The same is basically true for most model variants, but interestingly, nearly 3X as many GTS coupes were produced that year.

There's a compelling supply v. demand argument to be made for 997.2s these days, especially as someone said earlier: the 991 and 992 cars got larger, much more lux, and way more expensive. The price point jump for new model lifts the price of the incumbent (usually) and in this case that lift is exaggerated by lack of supply and the "last model that had [insert feature here]" that often makes people chase the older cars.

Mine's extremely low mile and is, in my opinion, spec'd very well with everything you need and nothing you don't. Given the rising value, I had thought about trying to find someone with a very nice 964 or 993 to trade with, though I know that if I regretted that decision it may be harder to unwind and duplicate the low mile clean 997.2.

Source: 997 Production Numbers by Year/Model

Wayne Smith

2010 models on the list above are split into two sections. I guess I've got to ask the stupid question ...

What is the R designation?

For reference from previous post ...

http://howtoporsche.com/911-series/9...r-and-version/

texass4

Good question. I take this with a grain of salt, as I cannot verify, but apparently in Model Year 2010 changes were made to the VIN numbering for cars destined for the USA. The "R" designation may refer to the number of cars made specifically for the US market in 2010.

ilovemaui

As they say a rising tide raises all ships.

street rod

Absolutely. Even if a smaller group is rising faster, the whole 997 segment has bottomed and is on its way up.

Alnico

We see in the Netherlands rising prices for the 997.2, as in the USA. Last week I sold my 993 cab for a 997.2 4S. I don't know if I will regret the selling of the 993, but the 997.2 is the better car to drive. My 993 was a garage queen, and I hope to make more miles ( in Europe kilometers) with the 4 S. By the way, Porsche prices are much higher in the Netherlands than in the USA due to the high taxes. I have paid 64.000,- for the 4S (2010, 50 K miles, full options), and got € 57.000 back for the 993...

Riptide

You can tell it’s winter.......

etom

When I bought my '92 964 coupe/manual, I knew I would have many years with it; and research, history, and common sense back then also made me want the car since I was almost certain it would be good investment. I sold it for almost 2.5 times what I paid for it.

Next: research, history, and common sense suggested that a 997.2 manual would also provide a a great ride, and that it would be decent investment. I have had the car less than a year, and I've had an offer from a whole-saler for 6 grand more than I paid for it, meaning that he planned to sell it for even more. I believe that a good 997.2 manual coupe will fetch $85k with 3-5 years.

The largest Porsche dealer out this way is bringing in as many 997s as it can from out east, since they have run out of supply, and this was told to me directly.

Just look at the car and you can tell why it was the obvious choice for the next want-to-have Porsche after the 993.

ZuffenZeus

Bury a turd and in a thousand years, it will be worth a sh*t.

groovzilla

Might be harder scratching the old Vee Jay with the top down

ThomasCarreraGTS

100%

Exactly what I do as well.

Hula

Porsche developed the 9A1 with a problem they never had before. More money than they knew what to do with. Euros were falling from the sky with the Cayenne and they unleashed their engineers. Alusil block. Die-cast heads. Eight main bearings. Closed deck. Even the water pump uses a closed impeller. A German engineer with an unlimited budget is the happiest German of all.

Prairiedawg

But Covid.......how much is the price artificial? Due to shortages of all sorts of things, especially cars, prices have gone up in general. The cost of a used Camry is up as well. Has anyone priced a new washer and dryer lately?

Labor shortages, material shortages, stimulus, the Fed printing money, discretionary spending on vacations and restaurants have all pushed the prices of all sorts of things up. As happy as I want to be with current 997 values, I'm not sure it's legit. Is my car worth 35% more than I paid for it a year ago? I don't know but that's what I just insured it for. Looks like the smartest investment I've made is a long time......except I'm not selling it, so it doesn't matter. We have some serious global macro economic issues going on that indirectly push all 911 values up. Hopefully when it all washes out I keep that ridiculous value increase.

Yes, I believe the 997.2 is a special car and the manuals even more so. Time will tell if others think so as well but there's more to it than the limited pool of cars with their limited pool of buyers.

sandwedge

Nothing to be sad about and your car isn't worthless. This forum is a treasure trove in terms of good information on the 997 but it's heavily biased towards manuals vs. PDK and not a good representation of the real market imo. Why has Porsche consistently built 80% PDK and 20% manual cars since 2009? Because manuals are in higher demand? The manual market is small but consists of die hards that are fighting till their knuckles bleed over a small number of manual cars which sometimes drives the price of those cars up. Doesn't mean PDK cars are worthless.

Porsche is among the best in the industry when it comes to making money. If the demand for manuals was strong I bet good money they would build more of them. They've had 12 years now to analyze what the market wants, what the dealerships are asking for and the 80% vs. 20% for PDK and manual respectively has held relatively steady by all statistics available. At least the statistics I've been able to find.

Liste-Renn

I mostly agree with sandwedge's opinion expressed above.

But the obvious fact he is not mentioning is this: Porsche has continued to offer a manual transmission option, despite the PDK being "superior" in any objective sense.

Why are the 911R, the 991.2 GTS/RS and 991.2 Speedster available with a new, improved 6MT, when the PDK is "superior" in every measurable way?

Simple: Driving a 911 is not an objective experience. If not on a track striving for best lap times, the cognitive demand requirement of a manual transmission is a positive factor in driver engagement and contributes to operator satisfaction. Manually manipulating a machine well is its own reward.

"Flying" a modern aircraft is essentially monitoring the autopilot/autothrust systems. Turning off the "magic" is actually where the fun of flying begins. Manipulating the thrust levers and actuating the flight controls is a visceral experience, which can be duplicated and often improved by automation, but that requires surrendering control of a machine and becoming a monitor. No one takes pride in a smooth autoland. A manual (hand-flown) approach to a precise touchdown in strong gusty crosswinds, on center line and without any crab into the wind is one of the great satisfactions in aviation.

Devoting a portion of one's brain to heel and toe rev-matching, while also planning/executing gear selection to match power demand is huge part of the driving experience craved/appreciated by "hardcore" or "old school" 911 aficionados.

The TipTronic auto was reviled by most 911 drivers- tolerated, at best. While the PDK is an improvement for anyone tracking, daily driving in traffic, or unable/unwilling to operate a clutch, the valuations do not reflect a preference for it.

Asserting that the 80/20 (PDK favorable) split on 997 builds somehow bestows a desirability factor in today's market is not accurate - that was then and the current market valuation of manual transmissions is today's reality. Manual transmissions are in greater demand, and maybe command a price premium because the heritage, history and soul of the 911 is intrinsically linked to that gearbox. "Progress" has not, at least in the 997.2/991.2/992 GTS/RS, 911R and 991 Speedster, supplanted the manual transmission with a PDK. On the contrary, a 6MT is either an option or a mandatory choice in those enthusiast 911 models.

The 997.2 is, arguably, the "last' of the analogue 911s. While the 993 marked the end of the air-cooled era, the 991 heralded a major shift in the development philosophy of the 911- lengthened wheelbase, e-steering, e-parking brake, auto rev-matching, RWS, etc., etc. The 997 sits between those evolutions- to the delight of the owners.

I feel fortunate to drive the crap out of my 997 GTS with a 6MT, RWD, hydro-mechanical steering, mechanical LSD, ratcheting handbrake, N/A engine- coupled with a semi-modern interior: Bose sound system, Adaptive Sport Seats, PDLS headlights, Sat Radio, Bluetooth phone, PASM, PSM and the bulletproof (so far) 9A1 direct injected engine with the X51 power option. While surprised by the recent GTS valuation spike, I have always valued the visceral experience, regardless of shifting market value.

Seems to me that the 997 MT valuations reflects a continuing appreciation for a 911 with a transmission that rewards driver involvement, aptitude and commitment combined with the satisfaction associated with mastering a machine that requires all four limbs and a more substantial portion of one's brain to accomplish.