Petza914

That's a heck of a spec on your car. Congtats. The only thing it's missing is PCCBs to be the pinnacle of a street 997.

Wayne Smith

Speaking of GTS specs has anyone heard how Mdrums is doing?

ilovemaui

It is sad to see this thread evolve into a debate on transmission type and a cutting down if anyone who likes the PDK. I’ve driven both and I don’t see either as being superior to the other. It really is up to the individual. I would hate a manual in stop and go traffic but love it on the open road. That’s just me.

That being said, when you look at the used car market for any classic going back to Chevy muscle cars the manual transmission cars will always command a higher price. There is something special about a manual.

When someone buys new they make a choice that best fits their particular need. Sometimes it comes down to satisfying the other half of the family. My wife would never drive a manual because grew up on automatics. She’s completely overwhelmed by the 911 to begin with. Honestly no one needs a 911. To me it’s a toy and I love it. I have other vehicles for DD depending on the immediate need. My 911 has a PDK and I love it. If I want the shift experience I put in manual mode. When stuck in traffic I go auto.

ThomasCarreraGTS

Yes, it is no fun that the same people constantly feel the need to jam their own personal opinion down everyone’s throat, and insist that their opinion is fact. They'll even try to convince us that the PDK vs manual sales figures don't mean what they in fact do mean. The overwhelming number of buyers prefer PDK to an old manual. Its a fact. Manufacturers build what buyers pay for. Anyway, after a while you just learn to ignore and tune out the manual fan boys and focus on the factual info in the forum. Eventually they'll find something else to cram down our throats, like they used to do with Tesla and iPhones.

Kineticdg

I don't think the point was manuals are "better" than the PDK- they are not. The thread is about valuation, and the price difference on the used market is real. Maybe manual transmission cars are "worse" from the OP's perspective, as they are getting "priced out of the neighborhood" faster than PDKs. But if you worry about there being too much appreciation (I'm not), then you would worry more about 6mt cars.

ManoTexas

Thanks for the support! I’m not really sad and regardless of how much it appreciates/depreciates I don’t plan to sell, my wife/kids can deal with it.

Skwerl

The overwhelming number of new buyers prefer PDK to manual. These are not new cars anymore and prices are dictated more by a confluence of rarity and enthusiast preference. Those people who shopped new and overwhelmingly bought a PDK 997 are now in a PDK 991 or 992.

According to this logic, the 6spd Gallardo, a spec ordered so rarely that Lamborghini would eventually start clarifying with the dealer that it wasn't ordered by mistake, would be worth significantly less than the automatic variants. After all, nobody wanted em, right?

This exact scenario has played out across the enthusiast car spectrum, whether it's with BMW M-cars or Ferraris or yes, even Porsches.

speedracerf4i

Guys, it's really not that complicated.
If I were in a jam for cash, then I'll take whatever offer over "CarMax's" offer.
If not, then I'll take what ever offer that would make me forget that my C4S isn't in the garage anymore.

sandwedge

No need to mention the fact that Porsche still offers a manual option. They know there's still demand for a manual but I think the production numbers speak for themselves. As I've said before, I see the PDK and manual markets as two separate markets. PDK buyers have no interest in a manual anymore and the manual buyers have no interest in a PDK. So the must have a manual guys keep fighting over the small number of manuals available while the huge majority of 997 buyers could care less about their little price wars over cars they don't want.

So why is the 80/20 PDK manual split not accurate in terms of desirability in today's market? You say.... "that was then and the current market valuation of manual transmissions is today's reality. Manual transmissions are in greater demand". As I said in a previous post, Porsche has had 12 years now to figure out which transmission is in greater demand and the 80/20 split in favor of the PDK has held relatively steady over more than a decade. If as you say "Manual transmissions are in greater demand", why have they stayed stubbornly around the 80/20 split?

I would love to hear a good rationale for Porsche ignoring dealership's desperate cries for more manuals if as you say the demand for them either outstrips the demand for PDK's or arent't built in enough numbers. To me at least, it makes no sense for Porsche to keep building cars with the 80/20 split in favor of PDK for over a decade if the marketplace including Porsche dealerships gave them undisputed proof that they were building cars the majority of buyers don't want.

As for your reference to flying an airplane manually as opposed to letting the autopilot do the job, I can relate and I agree with all you said. I flew DC9's and MD-80's for TWA until they finally crapped in CH 11 (second time). Never used the auto pilot below 10,000' regardless of weather. Being cleared below 10,000' was my triggering point to disconnect the auto pilot and I never strayed from it. I drive my PDK car the same way...sort of. In auto mode until the oil is up to temperature and then always in manual, sport plus. It's engaging, you control the inputs but I understand that to some, using your left leg when shifting gears is important. Me, I've moved on to the next generation. A little different but still engaging if you have a desire to make it so. If you sit down in a PDK car and hate it before even discovering what it's capable of then there's no reason to even try it imo.

Prairiedawg

Which engine oil should I use with a PDK? If I shift manually, should I use the same oil as a manual transmission car?

ThomasCarreraGTS

Porsche builds NEW cars to sell to original buyers. Obviously that's how they make their money. No manufacturer builds cars for the second or third or fourth owner, or for some small, specialty niche on a forum. Nor does this forum represent reality. And that's OK, most of us are not here for reality - we are more car nuts and not representative of the larger market. But nobody should think that OUR opinions accurately reflect the market for Porsches or any other brand, because they don't! If our opinions really mattered to Porsche, or Ferrari, or Lamborghini, I promise you, what they build would prove it! And as we've discussed on here so many times, the reason for the pricing on the few manuals that were actually sold is simply supply and demand. You only need 2 buyers for one item to get a bidding war. Right now you have enthusiasts like us, and collectors who will never drive these cars, clamoring to get one of the very few, old school manual transmission cars available. Nothing more than that. It doesn't mean they are better, or worse. It''s simple supply and demand.

ThomasCarreraGTS

Yeah, the dealerships are NOT crying for manuals, I can assure you. I worked in dealerships, mostly as General Manager for 16 years. Dealerships have NO romance about cars like we do. They only want what sells. Sadly, the ultimate sports cars and track cars that we dream of on this forum hardly sell at all, and no dealership wants to sit on merchandise with such a limited buyer pool, and run up huge floorpan costs. They need the volume of Cayennes, Macans and now the Taycan. Thats how they pay for everything. If manual transmissions were favored in the 911, they would be ordered that way and Porsche would build them that way. Contrary to what some people think, Porsche does NOT build what it wants without regard to the market, they do in fact build what the market demands. Yes, there are still a small number of purists who favor the nostalgic manual transmission, and so unlike most companies, Porsche actually spends the money designing one and getting it through regulations, which is no easy task, but the market is very small in the scope of things. And for anyone who actually drives these cars on track, as I regularly do, a PDK transmission is vastly superior and faster than any old manual. In fact, no less than Gordon Murray selected paddles only for his new, ultimate track car named after Niki Lauda. Old school manuals are quaint, and there is nostalgia, and yes, I love them, but PDK is technically far superior and manuals will shortly be gone from the market completely.

850tgul

I don't think any reasonable person is denying, or blaming, Porsche for building more PDK cars than manuals. They're not stupid and they know what sells. Nor is anyone really arguing the manual transmission is objectively "better" than the PDK. I do think, however, that when we talk about a ~10 year old car on the used market, it's hard to deny that an apples to apples 6MT 997.2 isn't worth more than its PDK counterpart to the right buyer (crazy car nuts like us). Supply and demand is certainly a part of it, lower production numbers for 6MT, etc. The fact that there are fewer and fewer manuals are offered in the new cars actually helps drive up the values of the old manual cars, I would think.

Petza914

Porsche certainly understands the enthusiast buyer and their connection to manual transmissions. They learned this lesson the hard way with the introduction of the 991 GT3 that was not offered with a MT option. Based on the uproar, the manual option was brought back for the 991.2 GT3. Also, look at some of the super-expensive specialty offerings that were only offered with a MT. The previous 2 generations of Boxster Spyder, the RS 4.0 that essentially became the Touring, the 991 based speedster, etc. Surely, the normal new Carrera buyer has a preference for PDK, but the specialty model new Porsche buyer who is old enough to be affluent enough to buy a $250k car (speedster) grew up with Manuals and still likes and wants them. The second or third hand 911 buyer still wants manuals and that's where the supply and demand issue stems from - the new buyer ordering PDK and more of the used buyers not wanting it.

Ironman88

This is absolutely the case. (And I think the same is true for Coupes vs Cabs.)

Discussion often seems to degenerate down to which is better, worse, advantaged, or disadvantaged. All of that is a waste of neural energy and is utter nonsense.

Buyers target precisely what they want and go for it. Condition and build become the primary differentiators.