93Jaffe

Agreed - studies typically have an agenda behind them. This one is a little suspect listing a Mini, Ford and Nissan. I think 911s are very reliably for the class they fall into but comparing them to a Toyota is apple and oranges. Not many 270k mile DD 911s out there like my LX470.

Bruce In Philly

I dunno about this. Common to believe that lighting can't strike twice, then three etc..... Let's say you flip a coin 10 times and it comes up heads each time. What is the probability that the next flip is heads?

Back with my 2000 Boxster S, I asked the shop foreman what is the likelyhood that my engine would blow.. he said since I had high mileage on it... about 45K miles... it will go forever. Well it blew 2K miles later. I didn't feel so bad about it actually, it was under warranty, and I "figured" that Porsche surely had to fix these issue by then... and I just got another 50K out my car... and it surely can't happen again..... BOOM.

Cripes, I am a downer eh?

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Upscale Audio

You're right Bruce. 100%. I never buy a warranty or service contract, and I can afford the downside to a PDK failure. But I have a service contract on my Porsches because I want to be freed emotionally to drive it whenever I want with no negative tapes running in my head. Even if it costs me $50 or even $75 a month to do it, now I don't give a sh*t . Drive it. You do a lot of your own wrenching. That's another way to lower the angst.

People claim that they don't want a super low mileage car because it hasn't been used enough Wear is wear.

Petza914

Well, not exactly. Flipping a coin is a 50/50 odds proposition. Failure of a 9A1 motor or a PDK transmission is significantly lower than that, like maybe a couple percent. Bronz also changed his odds of a subsequent engine failure with the Raby build so those odds are now probably 0.1% or even better. Odds of a second PDK failure are probably less than 1%.

Bruce, in the case of your engine failure you had the same engine with a higher percentage of failure reinstalled so though the chances of 2 failures on the same car are significantly lower just from a probability perspective, in your case you put the same type of motor back in so didn't improve the odds beyond the original ones, but Bronz didn't do that with his motor and the failure rate on PDK transmissions is much lower than on M96/M97 engines so he's also better off there too.

TheTorch

Not to make light of Bronz's bad luck, but this reminds me of "The World According to Garp", when Robin Williams (Garp) is looking at a house to buy, and a plane crashes into it.

"We'll take the house. Honey, the chances of another plane hitting this house are astronomical. She's been pre-disastered."

around 1:25...

Iceter

I liked that movie but Garp's logic was flawed. The plane hitting the house once makes it more likely that the house would be hit again. He's at the end of a runway or on a flight path. Same with lightning. It OFTEN strikes twice, or more times, because the lightning is attracted to something there.

Anywhoo, I got a laugh out of someone suggesting an Alfa as a replacement for the OP's 911. If you want a breakage-prone car, your best bet is an Alfa Romeo. Good grief.

cdk4219

once I started buying German cars, I found myself in a never ending “maintenance” circle. Lots of little bulls$&t that is costly and time consuming. Not so much with the GM and Toyota cars I own. The cost of repair on a German car is much higher across the board from oil changes to brakes.
I cringe when people call them well engineered, over engineered yes, well engineered no.

linderpat

I think there is a lot of merit to this conclusion. I have owned/still own, 5 928's, 1 Boxster and one 997. They are all over-engineered, and the quality seems very high for the most part, but the things that become apparent lead me to believe they are not necessarily well engineered in all cases. I do a lot of my own wrenching (I am not a mechanic, but I am an engineer), so I get to see up close many of the things that afflict the car, and the sometimes weird decision making when designing them. I have an Audi too, an A6 supercharged car, and it is similar in this respect to the Porsches.

Mike Murphy

There might be something to this. A car that has been poorly taken care of might have more maintenance and failure items, so a “problem child car” might be more cursed than another.

Or maybe the car is just cursed for a different reason.

So Bronz might be right to get rid of the cursed car. The chances of Bronz’ car having another issue that he must pay for after he gets rid of it is zero. The chance that there will be a problem if he keeps it is greater than zero. So that’s a terrible gamble on the face of it because of the odds.

sandwedge

Of course a house at the end of a runway is more likely to be hit by an airplane than a house nowhere near an airport. Just like a house high on a hill is more likely to be hit by lightning than one deep in a valley. But assuming the owner of the car discussed here has done recommended maintenance on schedule and is not abusing his car, wouldn't the odds be on his side for a less problematic future? Anyone here who had two engine and two transmission failures on the same car with less than a ton of miles on the clock?

As for the chance of another failure, the only way to get a zero chance of any kind of future failures on a car is to get a bicycle.

mujeriega

This study is by JD Power which is a very legitimate study if you understand the boundaries. They are basically for how many issues have arisen for a car in the first 3 years.

Knowing this, the information is useful in determining how often you will take it back to the dealer for issues during the first 3 years while under warranty. In addition, this info "might" be a proxy for how many issues you will see with the car in latter years but anyone who has owned a German car knows that it is after the warranty is up where all the issues magically start popping up... and sometimes on a regular basis.

Upscale Audio

I'll preface this by saying I love my Porsches. But I’d trust my Alfa on a cross-country trip over my Porsches any day of the week. I think that Porsche gets a pass from both the press and owners that is sometimes undeserved. This is a picture I took with a new customer at my store yesterday. Hell of a nice guy that rolled up in a $200k Mercedes GT63S (parked next to my 2012 GTS), with his Dobie-mix dog running around in the car. I laughed and said “It’s beautiful!”. He gave me the key and insisted I drive it hard….with the dog in it. (That's me in the picture) Afterward, we talked cars and I told him my DD is a Quadrifoglio. He had one too and loved it, but when he saw the GT63S he traded it in. He’s got bucks

But the GT63S had a diff problem out of the gate. I told him my 2015 GTS had a PDK failure at 10k miles. His 991.2 TT and it too had a PDK failure at 2k miles. Last night I was at dinner with a good friend Geoff, who in two weeks is taking delivery of his first Porsche, a 992 911. He asked me about extended warranty advice because his best friend Dave has a 991 and the PDK failed.

GT4 transmission failure and recall. GT3 engine fires - 785 engines replaced. Still complaints of engine misfires, so they extend the warranty to 10 years. Problem is at 10 years values will take a hit.PDK failures. Look for stickys on this forum. Thankfully it appears bore scoring and IMS is a thing of the past.

MOST 911’s are garage queen weekend cars, driving an average of maybe 4k miles a year. The 2017 Panamera had more TSB’s than any other Panamera. 178 http://www.porscheproblems.com/models/panamera/tsbs/
Alfas are daily drivers and the COMMON issues were minor but frustrating I’m sure. And websites like Jalopnik liked to use them as a punching bag while kissing Porsche’s ***. True, Alfa had check engine lights from software glitches and a couple of connectors that could come loose or get water in them. That’s easy stuff to correct on the rollout of an ENTIRELY BRAND NEW platform into a country where it was still establishing dealers, parts supply chain, and brand-new technicians to troubleshoot a car they've never even seen. The VAST majority of issues that resulted in buybacks were not being able to track down just what was happening in 30 days as required in many states.

My 911 was in the shop for FIVE WEEKS. Not because of the transmission, but because the headlights delaminated (another common problem) and they could not seem to figure out the right replacement part. That’s pretty inept. If all these problems were Alfa Romeo the press would FRY them. Porsche? Nope.

My QV has never been repaired. Ferrari knows how to design an engine. I’ve NEVER seen any Guilia with a transmission failure because they used the ZF 8HP and it’s DURABLE as well as amazing to use.

Now that they’ve figured out the software and the throttle body issue, if I was on a budget of $42K, and could only own ONE car, I’d be all over a buyback QV. Factory warranty remains and if you are nervous buy a factory 3 years extension for 2k. It’s the most thrilling car I’ve ever owned, and I’ve owned a lot.

I love my Porsches, and have always been a fan since I bought my first one at the age of 20. But I don't get googly-eyed over anything I buy anymore. I guess it's age...and experience.

cdk4219

I would take my sons 2005 Scion on a long trip before any of the German cars I own. The experience I have had with all of the German cars I have is possibly getting one warning that something is going wrong, then it’s broken quickly and usually stopped dead in its tracks. 955 driveshaft carrier no warning, cayenne coolant tubes immediate dump of all coolant twice( tee behind engine failed after replacement of coolant tubes) 996 turbo coolant tube twice, only fixed the one that popped out first because everybody said this was “rare”, and Mercedes crank sensors that fail without warning. All cars with 40 to 80thousabd miles, all on the side of the road no go.

I wouldn’t think of an Alfa as a reliable car, but having 11 German cars in my Garage I can believe it. When they work they work pretty well, when they break they break quickly, and costly.

Bruce In Philly

2009 C2S 152K miles.

Kevin, Kevin, Kevin..... Not take your newer, post 2009 Porsches on a long trip? I beg to differ. Note the miles on mine. However, I did take my 2000 Boxster S (the M96/M97 engine) on long trips and I was rewarded with a blow up in Atlanta. At least the car had the good sense to blow near the Porsche distribution center as they had me with a new engine in 24 hours.... I chuckled as I waited in the dealership under a sign that said something like "All parts purchased here are race tested.". It would not have been so nice to blow in rural South Carolina where I was just traveling through. The former shop foreman at my local Porsche dealership agreed with you and said he would not take these then-new engines (M96/M97) on a trip... he saw too many blow and thought them unreliable for that.

I agree totally with you that Porsche gets a pass from the press.... no doubt about it. The emperor wears a mighty fine set of clothes.

However, I don't feel the same about the newer 9A1 engines in 2009 and newer. Not even the same animal. This engine has my trust. My 2009 C2S is my everyday driver and I even have a 2nd set of wheels/tires for snow season. I trust it as much as I do any other good car. Although to be fair, I do listen to all those ticks and noises.... I don't give the car a totally free pass especially after having two Boxster engines blow.

Heck, I even feel the same way about my KT150s I purchased from you.... they are going the distance..... aren't they? No?........ ;-)

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Upscale Audio

Hey Bruce

My response was not so much about Porsches being a problem as much as it is about people saying Alfa is not or cannot make an amazing, durable car. Look deeper. Spend time in the Giulia forums and sure, you'll see people getting over-excited with any little problem they have (lots of younger owners) but you WON'T see repeating BIG repairs. And not ONE transmission replacement that I've heard of. That's what I'm talkin' about.

And when comparing we should keep in mind most Alfas get driven daily. You're the exception to the rule. Not an average experience.

And while I love shifting my PDK, I wouldn't own one without a warranty. From what I've read, Ferrari is making it easier to crack open their DCT and to repair them. Porsche owners? Not that I see.

Everyone loves the KT150 tube. Fact is they are a bitch for me to sell because all the Audio Research owner's want to buy from me at $100 each instead of paying ARC $275 each. But some ARC amps are difficult because they have one bias adjustment controlling four tubes which is unforgivable IMHO. That tube is inconsistent and a simple knock in shipping means they will measure different and have to be exchanged. Pain in the *** for us to make a few bucks. I just raised my price for ARC testing
Each tube takes 10 minutes to test. I pay for a pre-test because they dont take them back, and they don't throw away anything. If it lights up, some dealer will sell it.

Kevin