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Pedals, wiring harness, ecm transmission, clutch, flywheel, shifter,shifter cables, various interior parts, clutch master, clutch hydraulic lines, and those are the large parts. I am definitely missing lots of parts and small things.
I’ve done it quite a few times on older cars, but never on a can bus vehicle. The Lamborghini and Ferrari guys do it often, but those cars are worth a little bit more.
Sandwedge said "and the only repairs worth mentioning was the busted PDK and water pump on the -09 C4S Both covered by warranty." If the PDK was just out of warranty I wonder if he would still say " Of course I have no proof of it but I highly doubt there's another brand out there that can match the performance, reliability and the overall low cost of ownership." Adding 20-25K to "maintenance" is a big increase to "low cost of ownership"
First off, my opinion is not based on my own PDK failure but on the scarce number of failures brought up in this forum. Obviously not representative of all PDK owners but I think it at least gives us a clue. I only recall one other than my own reported here so it's clearly not a common failure. And where does the 20-25K number come from? My replacement came to $14K and that was many moons ago. Price for replacement has come down since then, not gone up.
First off, my opinion is not based on my own PDK failure but on the scarce number of failures brought up in this forum. Obviously not representative of all PDK owners but I think it at least gives us a clue. I only recall one other than my own reported here so it's clearly not a common failure. And where does the 20-25K number come from? My replacement came to $14K and that was many moons ago. Price for replacement has come down since then, not gone up.
These are discounted prices. without labor. Retail starts at $20,972, discounted to $16,778 and goes up to $28207. Plus labor, I suspect the lower priced one is a rebuilt. Try getting a discount from a Los Angeles dealer.
Remember what I said in my earlier post::
"My response was not so much about Porsches being a problem as much as it is about people saying Alfa is not or cannot make an amazing, durable car. Look deeper. Spend time in the Giulia forums and sure, you'll see people getting over-excited with any little problem they have (lots of younger owners) but you WON'T see repeating BIG repairs. And not ONE transmission replacement that I've heard of. That's what I'm talkin' about".
I was offering a suggestion about an alternative, and people with made comments without any personal experience and most likely have spent zero time on Alfa forums. Comparing the new QV to a 1970's Alfa spider or a TR6 is like comparing an NSX to a Honda 600. I think they are defensive because they think I'm banging on their cars. I'm not.
I DO think that if private garages can get assistance and parts from Porsche like Ferrari is doing with FACTORY TRAINING to SERVICE instead of REPLACING it can only help. Porsche makes more money per car on the 911 than any other car in the world https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/p...rofitable-car/ They can show a little love. My PDK was replaced with a REBUILT I didn't want because of a seal. I didn't want a rebuilt. My car had 9877 miles. I had no choice.
In my business, the tube amplifier brand that is considered "the best" charges customers up the *** for amps that they could sell for 50% LESS and they would still make buckets of money. They have that thing that allows them to charge not a multiple of what it costs like so many businesses, but what they can get away with. Then they further victimize customers by charging them $275 each for replacement tubes that we sell for $100, Then there are the "upgrades" to the "latest technology" for $2,000 which is a handful of capacitors. Their dealers all fall in line with the story, sticking their pig noses in the feeding trough. It's SO expensive people say "It must be the best". Bullsh*t. Any electrical engineer would laugh his *** off.
But consumers are getting wise, mostly due to forums like this. But as long as people find it acceptable Porsche won't change.
In closing I think Porsche makes as good a car as any European brand. The delta between all of them I suspect is not huge, with more complex models failing more often. I love the 911 dearly. It's a blast.
[QUOTE=bronz;16412365]PDK Costs havent really gone down its 12,800 for refurb unit from porsche plus tax and labor so that puts you at about 15k still...
[/QUOTE
Was that at a Porsche dealership?
The last guy that really chronicled his pdk failure on here (maybe in 2017 or 2018) went to 2 different Porsche dealerships in Illinois. The second one did his for less than $10k and got a little Goodwill help there and he did not have a long standing relationship with that dealer. They even provided him with a Macan loaner.
I feel like I'm arguing that the world is round to a flat earther, but what the heck... .
No, I have never owned an Alfa. That's on purpose. I dont need to own a rattlesnake to know that they bite. I've had plenty of opportunities to. I have plenty of anecdotal evidence that they are currently and historically unreliable. But I am a banker and I recognize that my personal knowledge of the brand may not be statistically significant.
Let me start by saying that I think they are beautiful cars and they drive and sound fantastic.. The interiors are crafted like true luxury cars and sitting still, they are automotive works of art.
So, let's go to the numbers. JD Power hasn't given the brand any awards, as far as I can tell from a quick online search. Consumer Reports doesn't like the brand, based on their ratings.
Car and Driver struggled for 14 months to put 40k miles on their Giulia because it was in the shop a total of 80 days during that time. Until 2019, both Car and Driver and Road and Track reported malfunctions or breakdowns on every test of an Alfa Romeo since the brand was reintroduced into the US. Some minor, some requiring a rollback. Every test, every model.
And the true test of reliability is resale. Alfas have abysmal resale values. Buying a new Alfa is a fool's game because 1 and 2 year-old Alfas litter the market at less than half of their MSRPs, some as low as a third of the original price. Those cars are still under warranty, but the market is telling us something. If a limited production car looks, drives and sounds amazing, the only thing left to drive down resale is terrible reliability and lack of dealer support.
Buying a car with a warranty is small consolation when it lives in the shop and the dealer can't get the parts it needs for weeks at a time.
I'm not an Alfa hater. I'm just a realist. I was in Italy last year and my driver was a car guy. We talked at length about all aspects of the automotive world. He drove a Mercedes and I asked him why he didn't drive an Italian car. He laughed and said it's because his living depends on the car working. He asked me how many Alfas and Fiats I saw in the US. I told him not many because they didn't sell well due to reliability issues. "Yes", he laughed, "that's always been true. I love Italian cars, but I don't own one."
Who give a Fuuuddgggeee about an Alfa Romeo. Lol, go tout those hunks of junk on an Alfa Romeo site.
My friend of mine had an Alfa dealership, along with just about every other band from Rolls to Porsche . . . . and he dumped it they were so bad. The brand is a nightmare and they are always showing back up on trailers. I have driven them on track and around town. Decent car and handles nice for a sedan, but trash and sinking as a brand.
Weren't sales off 27% in 2019?
They were the 4th worst in JD Powers in 2019, That pretty hard to get if you tried.
=bronz;16412365]PDK Costs havent really gone down its 12,800 for refurb unit from porsche plus tax and labor so that puts you at about 15k still...
Was that at a Porsche dealership?
The last guy that really chronicled his pdk failure on here (maybe in 2017 or 2018) went to 2 different Porsche dealerships in Illinois. The second one did his for less than $10k and got a little Goodwill help there and he did not have a long standing relationship with that dealer. They even provided him with a Macan loaner.
That's exactly what I referred to suggesting PDK replacement cost has come down. As I said, my replacement came to $14K, parts and labor. Done by a local Porsche dealership who gave me a Cayman loaner. Only took 4 days. Maybe just 3. Forgot but it was much quicker than I expected. Sold that car so I don't have the records but I believe that was early 2014. Not a brand new PDK unit but factory rebuilt and warrantied for 2 years. So now you can have the same thing done for $10K or less.
As rare as they are I don't have a problem with factory rebuilt PDK's with a 2 year warranty. Why? Because the few failures I've read about were electronics related as opposed to mechanical. So "rebuilt" in this case may be the replacement of a $200 electronic component as opposed to a totally trashed transmission. Another reason is that I've spoken fairly recently with the guy who bought my -09 with the factory rebuilt PDK. Quiet a few miles added since the replacement 6 years ago and no issues. Just a wild guess but maybe Porsche identified the early electronic related failures and made the necessary improvements to the weak components.
Who give a Fuuuddgggeee about an Alfa Romeo. Lol, go tout those hunks of junk on an Alfa Romeo site.
My friend of mine had an Alfa dealership, along with just about every other band from Rolls to Porsche . . . . and he dumped it they were so bad. The brand is a nightmare and they are always showing back up on trailers. I have driven them on track and around town. Decent car and handles nice for a sedan, but trash and sinking as a brand.
Weren't sales off 27% in 2019?
They were the 4th worst in JD Powers in 2019, That pretty hard to get if you tried.
I once made the mistake of buying a brand new 2014 Alfa Giulietta...
Sold it after a bit more than one year, during which time it had been back at the dealership 4 or 5 times.
The whole engine was taken out of the car 2 or 3 times before they found the issue. They even flew in an Alfa engineer from Italy to have a look at it.
Their after-sales service was great, but quality was deplorable (and then I am not even talking about the fact that you couldn't pull up the handbrake when the armrest was in the forward position etc).
Alfa - run, don't walk!
That's exactly what I referred to suggesting PDK replacement cost has come down. As I said, my replacement came to $14K, parts and labor. Done by a local Porsche dealership who gave me a Cayman loaner. Only took 4 days. Maybe just 3. Forgot but it was much quicker than I expected. Sold that car so I don't have the records but I believe that was early 2014. Not a brand new PDK unit but factory rebuilt and warrantied for 2 years. So now you can have the same thing done for $10K or less.
As rare as they are I don't have a problem with factory rebuilt PDK's with a 2 year warranty. Why? Because the few failures I've read about were electronics related as opposed to mechanical. So "rebuilt" in this case may be the replacement of a $200 electronic component as opposed to a totally trashed transmission. Another reason is that I've spoken fairly recently with the guy who bought my -09 with the factory rebuilt PDK. Quiet a few miles added since the replacement 6 years ago and no issues. Just a wild guess but maybe Porsche identified the early electronic related failures and made the necessary improvements to the weak components.
Yeah, looks like OP elected to go to an Independent shop to handle this issue where you stand absolutely zero chance of getting any discount, goodwill or help on a repair such as this.
A dealership will quote you full price for something like this over the phone or at first in person, but should work with a customer who says and does the right things from that point forward. The other pdk replacement we are both talking about came in below $10k and included a free loaner Macan at an Illinois Porsche dealership.
I, without a doubt, would get goodwill discount on something like this because I have long established relationships with dealerships and PCNA from purchasing many new Porsches of all kinds over the years. I might pay a little more for certain services and small stuff, but I can say without any hesitationthat I have had 6 figures of work and parts covered through goodwill over the years from giving dealerships my business on the smaller stuff.
PCNA can actually be super great to work with you if you appear to be a loyal customer that keeps your car well maintained.
Iceter said "Until 2019, both Car and Driver and Road and Track reported malfunctions or breakdowns on every test of an Alfa Romeo since the brand was reintroduced into the US. Some minor, some requiring a rollback. Every test, every model."
And of course you don’t want to mention all the other magazines around the world that did not have problems. Motor Trend I think said it best after giving the Giulia Car of the Year:
“What do people say? Mostly that same old line about Italian-car reliability. If the whole country of Italy wasn't so easygoing, it would have a complex, too. Fact of the matter, though, is my Giulia's been as good or better than the average car in our long-term fleet Every time I mindlessly caressed the big, metal shift paddles, every time I turned the **** to Dynamic mode, every time I whipped around a freeway cloverleaf and dreamed about skipping work and going for a drive in the mountains instead, I remembered why cars like this win awards.”
Iceter said "1 and 2 year-old Alfas litter the market at less than half of their MSRPs, some as low as a third of the original price."
Another untruth. If there’s a 2 year old Alfa selling for ⅓ somewhere show it to me. But you are helping me make my point:
You're a banker, right? If I may ask, what do you do? Think about Boeing. Software issues that will be solved create a buying opportunity. I’m an importer/distributor/retailer. A very successful one who’s company has grown at least 30% per year the last four years. After growing 47% in 2019, we became the largest 2 channel specialist retailer in America. People think it’s because of sales and marketing, and that’s a minor part. It’s mostly because of buying. I find deals for our customers that get them something much better than they thought they could afford.
The regional sales manager for Audioquest just stopped by last week, and he always fawns over my QV after I took him out in it. I told him he could buy one almost new for $43k, and have a 4 year warranty for $2k more. He said “I feel sick. I just paid more than that for a VW Golf R”.
Bronz got bit. That’s what this thread is about. $40k in repairs. All I did was offer an idea to him. Why you or anybody else would take umbrage to that is baffling. If somebody offers another option I say rock on. It’s so funny to see people becoming so insular and get so wound up.
Doug H said “Who give a Fuuuddgggeee about an Alfa Romeo. Lol, go tout those hunks of junk on an Alfa Romeo site.”
I thought he’d start a chant….LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP!
Take a chill pill.
ps - Bronz said the price for a refurb is lower now at something like $12k plus labor. While it still sucks, it better than I thought it would be. I hope they continue to think about ALL their customers. Not just fat-cats..
This thread has become like an argument at a funeral. Please stop.
Lol, those are the best kinds!
I perhaps probably shouldn’t add this then, but the Quadrofoglio ain’t really worth a dang on street tires. It just feels great and handles decent out of the box because it is delivered on R compounds. On street tires, a Dodge Caravan would smoke it around a closed road course, especially after it goes into limp mode in lap two. Then I could get out and walk and beat it.
02-09-2020, 04:55 PM
