08 Nissan GTR - is it the real deal
03-06-2008, 05:05 AM
#196
Three Wheelin'
Well, consider this:
Given the apparent limitations on tampering with a GTR ECU, turbos/wastegates/blowoffs, etc, or even the wheels (apparently you cannot run aftermarket rubber on them, at a recent show the rim manufacturers actually had to roll the cars in on the stock wheels, jack em up an swap on stage) I think a 996tt with even factory x50 or a little aftermarket juice will make enough power to keep you real close to a GTR, depending on your mindset maybe much better, and the GTR cannot be made to make more power by all current accounts from Japan I've read. (or to look quite as nice IMHO)
Given how soft the 996tt market is, I bet you could pick a decent one up in the low 50s, mod the motor to 600+bhp, fit DOT slicks, coilovers, brakes, and still have enough left over for a kawasaki zx-14 and a trip to the track to vmax both for less than a GTR wil cost you this year. Or skip the kawa and all that frivolous handling/braking nonsense and convince someone to lease you the GTR for the year for the difference, side by side comparison.
If anyone wants to test the theory, why not start on an old car? Hennessey in ATL has a CPO 996tt, high miles but hey you're going to wind up rebuilding the motor soon anyway right? "2001 Porsche 911 Turbo Coupé, $ 44,982" (price listed on the porsche usa preowned search, figure you walk for 40)
Given the apparent limitations on tampering with a GTR ECU, turbos/wastegates/blowoffs, etc, or even the wheels (apparently you cannot run aftermarket rubber on them, at a recent show the rim manufacturers actually had to roll the cars in on the stock wheels, jack em up an swap on stage) I think a 996tt with even factory x50 or a little aftermarket juice will make enough power to keep you real close to a GTR, depending on your mindset maybe much better, and the GTR cannot be made to make more power by all current accounts from Japan I've read. (or to look quite as nice IMHO)
Given how soft the 996tt market is, I bet you could pick a decent one up in the low 50s, mod the motor to 600+bhp, fit DOT slicks, coilovers, brakes, and still have enough left over for a kawasaki zx-14 and a trip to the track to vmax both for less than a GTR wil cost you this year. Or skip the kawa and all that frivolous handling/braking nonsense and convince someone to lease you the GTR for the year for the difference, side by side comparison.
If anyone wants to test the theory, why not start on an old car? Hennessey in ATL has a CPO 996tt, high miles but hey you're going to wind up rebuilding the motor soon anyway right? "2001 Porsche 911 Turbo Coupé, $ 44,982" (price listed on the porsche usa preowned search, figure you walk for 40)
03-06-2008, 05:12 AM
#197
Three Wheelin'
I'm actually surprised I'm seeing as many R8s as I have been this past couple of months, and excited for the future. I can't say I like the blades much, or the christmas lights on the front lamps, however it's definitely a nice looking car and sounds better than I thought it would. But it will be a bargain in the used/certified market, will depreciate like a stone once a hi-po RS version comes out. This is why I love Audi, catastrophic depreciation to my benefit! (and beautiful design inside and out of course)
03-06-2008, 06:14 AM
#198
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How about instead of the Kawasaki and modifying the 996 TT, you buy a 996 TT and an Ariel Atom, the Ariel Atom will be faster than the GTR and you can daily drive the 996 TT.
03-06-2008, 03:52 PM
#199
Well, consider this:
Given the apparent limitations on tampering with a GTR ECU, turbos/wastegates/blowoffs, etc, or even the wheels (apparently you cannot run aftermarket rubber on them, at a recent show the rim manufacturers actually had to roll the cars in on the stock wheels, jack em up an swap on stage) I think a 996tt with even factory x50 or a little aftermarket juice will make enough power to keep you real close to a GTR, depending on your mindset maybe much better, and the GTR cannot be made to make more power by all current accounts from Japan I've read. (or to look quite as nice IMHO)
Given how soft the 996tt market is, I bet you could pick a decent one up in the low 50s, mod the motor to 600+bhp, fit DOT slicks, coilovers, brakes, and still have enough left over for a kawasaki zx-14 and a trip to the track to vmax both for less than a GTR wil cost you this year. Or skip the kawa and all that frivolous handling/braking nonsense and convince someone to lease you the GTR for the year for the difference, side by side comparison.
If anyone wants to test the theory, why not start on an old car? Hennessey in ATL has a CPO 996tt, high miles but hey you're going to wind up rebuilding the motor soon anyway right? "2001 Porsche 911 Turbo Coupé, $ 44,982" (price listed on the porsche usa preowned search, figure you walk for 40)
Given the apparent limitations on tampering with a GTR ECU, turbos/wastegates/blowoffs, etc, or even the wheels (apparently you cannot run aftermarket rubber on them, at a recent show the rim manufacturers actually had to roll the cars in on the stock wheels, jack em up an swap on stage) I think a 996tt with even factory x50 or a little aftermarket juice will make enough power to keep you real close to a GTR, depending on your mindset maybe much better, and the GTR cannot be made to make more power by all current accounts from Japan I've read. (or to look quite as nice IMHO)
Given how soft the 996tt market is, I bet you could pick a decent one up in the low 50s, mod the motor to 600+bhp, fit DOT slicks, coilovers, brakes, and still have enough left over for a kawasaki zx-14 and a trip to the track to vmax both for less than a GTR wil cost you this year. Or skip the kawa and all that frivolous handling/braking nonsense and convince someone to lease you the GTR for the year for the difference, side by side comparison.
If anyone wants to test the theory, why not start on an old car? Hennessey in ATL has a CPO 996tt, high miles but hey you're going to wind up rebuilding the motor soon anyway right? "2001 Porsche 911 Turbo Coupé, $ 44,982" (price listed on the porsche usa preowned search, figure you walk for 40)
1. $45K for a 996TT is not typical, but you can find a lot of early turbos now in the $50's. Have you looked at the cost of rebuilding a 996tt motor? How about $20K+. You are always better off paying more and getting one with a good motor.
2. Although a used 996TT is cheaper used than a new GT-R is new, that 996TT was over $110 new. The base price of the new 997TT is $126K. The is no queston a GT-R is a bargain. If all you are looking at is performance numbers, why do you own a Porsche and not a Corvette? A Z06 is the same money as a GT-R. You could buy a base LS3 Corvette and put an APS twin-turbo kit (700+ hp) on it with a total spend of over $10K less than a GT-R or a Z06.
3. Mines already has an ECU upgrade for the GT-R in Japan. Mines has also already announced they will sell GT-R parts in the US. They will have both an ECU upgrade and an exhaust available before the end of the year.
4. You do not have to fill the tires with Nitrogen if you are using aftermarket wheels and tires. This is done from the factory for some minor handling improvements. Nissan dealers will be installing Nitrogen filling stations for tire changes. There are several tuners in Japan already using aftermarket wheels and tires with traditional compressed air and no ill effects.
4. The issue for any comparison is not power. A 997TT has the same power, 75 ft-lbs more torque, a much broader powerband and 300 lbs less weight than a GT-R, yet still seems to lag behind the GT-R on a road course. The GT-R is in fact slower in a straight line than a 997 Turbo and it lacks the variable geometry turbos the 997tt has, so the difference has to be in handling.
03-06-2008, 03:56 PM
#200
Three Wheelin'
I wish! Unless you know something I don't(which believe me is way more than likely!), I don't think you can find an atom in the usa for less than 50, and really well sorted examples are pushing 80-100 (i have been watching prices, been considering keeping one out west). now that tmi are going to be building in the us, we might see costs come down marginally but usd to gbp FX won't help that anytime soon.
Last edited by htny; 03-06-2008 at 04:13 PM.
03-06-2008, 04:09 PM
#201
Three Wheelin'
Oh don't get me wrong, GT-R is a bargain and is magic-quick in the magazines, probably much easier to drive fast ala EVO vs. cayman etc. My post was a bit more tongue in cheek, but all of your points are of course valid, and the corvette of course can make BIG power on the cheap.
I wasn't aware that anyone had defeated the GT-R nanny systems, that's awesome
I wasn't aware that anyone had defeated the GT-R nanny systems, that's awesome
1. $45K for a 996TT is not typical, but you can find a lot of early turbos now in the $50's. Have you looked at the cost of rebuilding a 996tt motor? How about $20K+. You are always better off paying more and getting one with a good motor.
2. Although a used 996TT is cheaper used than a new GT-R is new, that 996TT was over $110 new. The base price of the new 997TT is $126K. The is no queston a GT-R is a bargain. If all you are looking at is performance numbers, why do you own a Porsche and not a Corvette? A Z06 is the same money as a GT-R. You could buy a base LS3 Corvette and put an APS twin-turbo kit (700+ hp) on it with a total spend of over $10K less than a GT-R or a Z06.
3. Mines already has an ECU upgrade for the GT-R in Japan. Mines has also already announced they will sell GT-R parts in the US. They will have both an ECU upgrade and an exhaust available before the end of the year.
4. You do not have to fill the tires with Nitrogen if you are using aftermarket wheels and tires. This is done from the factory for some minor handling improvements. Nissan dealers will be installing Nitrogen filling stations for tire changes. There are several tuners in Japan already using aftermarket wheels and tires with traditional compressed air and no ill effects.
4. The issue for any comparison is not power. A 997TT has the same power, 75 ft-lbs more torque, a much broader powerband and 300 lbs less weight than a GT-R, yet still seems to lag behind the GT-R on a road course. The GT-R is in fact slower in a straight line than a 997 Turbo and it lacks the variable geometry turbos the 997tt has, so the difference has to be in handling.
2. Although a used 996TT is cheaper used than a new GT-R is new, that 996TT was over $110 new. The base price of the new 997TT is $126K. The is no queston a GT-R is a bargain. If all you are looking at is performance numbers, why do you own a Porsche and not a Corvette? A Z06 is the same money as a GT-R. You could buy a base LS3 Corvette and put an APS twin-turbo kit (700+ hp) on it with a total spend of over $10K less than a GT-R or a Z06.
3. Mines already has an ECU upgrade for the GT-R in Japan. Mines has also already announced they will sell GT-R parts in the US. They will have both an ECU upgrade and an exhaust available before the end of the year.
4. You do not have to fill the tires with Nitrogen if you are using aftermarket wheels and tires. This is done from the factory for some minor handling improvements. Nissan dealers will be installing Nitrogen filling stations for tire changes. There are several tuners in Japan already using aftermarket wheels and tires with traditional compressed air and no ill effects.
4. The issue for any comparison is not power. A 997TT has the same power, 75 ft-lbs more torque, a much broader powerband and 300 lbs less weight than a GT-R, yet still seems to lag behind the GT-R on a road course. The GT-R is in fact slower in a straight line than a 997 Turbo and it lacks the variable geometry turbos the 997tt has, so the difference has to be in handling.
03-06-2008, 09:42 PM
#203
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03-06-2008, 10:13 PM
#204
Ironman 140.6
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4. The issue for any comparison is not power. A 997TT has the same power, 75 ft-lbs more torque, a much broader powerband and 300 lbs less weight than a GT-R, yet still seems to lag behind the GT-R on a road course. The GT-R is in fact slower in a straight line than a 997 Turbo and it lacks the variable geometry turbos the 997tt has, so the difference has to be in handling.
03-06-2008, 10:39 PM
#205
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Mr Jackel
I also love my Porsche and !'m no part of the religion either. Put I am part of the passion, as many here are.
The issue here is that this thread got off track and started comparing two cars that are not in the same league nor have the same following and passion (religion as some will call it).
Ben is correct in the fact that Nissan has put out a beast. But this does not mean Ferrari, Porsche or any other high end European manufactorer has to go back to the drawing board. They are playing against eachother in a different league. But Toyota and Honda should take note.
I also love my Porsche and !'m no part of the religion either. Put I am part of the passion, as many here are.
The issue here is that this thread got off track and started comparing two cars that are not in the same league nor have the same following and passion (religion as some will call it).
Ben is correct in the fact that Nissan has put out a beast. But this does not mean Ferrari, Porsche or any other high end European manufactorer has to go back to the drawing board. They are playing against eachother in a different league. But Toyota and Honda should take note.
Totally agree with the passion part, I love my Carrera. However, these cars are in the same league as far as performance. The fit and finish are miles apart, just like with the Corvette. Gotta say if money was no object I'd take a TT everytime. But we're talking 997TT performance with a great car for less than a N/A 911! Great to see what Porsche will do now though!
I hate to say it, but I will probably buy a GT-R as my next car. Part of the allure (sic?)of the Porsche is it's handling and power with comfort. The AWD and 997TT power with a loaded Caymen price tag is hard to beat.
Love my car, but...
Anyway, until that day (a long way off for me) I'm loving the car I have and may just keep it for good.
The folks on this site are great too.
Adios,
03-06-2008, 11:11 PM
#206
Drifting
It's easy to get caught up in the raw numbers and the car may well have been designed to put them up on the board. However, few of us can own the cars at the top of this list. I'm guessing most of us don't want that car anyway. To me it's the whole package including aesthetics, history, sound, cost, soul, maintainability, depreciation, performance, handling and perhaps even status. Each of us puts more weighting on some of these factors than others. If I was in the market for something new I wouldn't even look at a Nissan. I'm guessing many will but probably the younger folk.
03-07-2008, 11:29 AM
#207
Three Wheelin'
GT-R vs. NSX size comparison
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180371
Narrower:
Can't even see the NSX other than the roof through the GTR's window:
Rear bumpers -even positioning:
GTR is slightly longer, and tire is as high as the NSX's hood:
Narrower:
Can't even see the NSX other than the roof through the GTR's window:
Rear bumpers -even positioning:
GTR is slightly longer, and tire is as high as the NSX's hood:
03-07-2008, 12:04 PM
#208
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That NSX looks so much better, it's not even funny. It just needs a LoveFab setup.
Edit: Here's the actual thread the pictures are from, with the NSX owner comparing the two cars in post #23. http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101802
Edit: Here's the actual thread the pictures are from, with the NSX owner comparing the two cars in post #23. http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101802
Last edited by Cody D; 03-07-2008 at 12:20 PM.
