08 Nissan GTR - is it the real deal
03-03-2008, 06:45 PM
#181
Ironman 140.6
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I ran next to an R8 yesterday and was surprised by how much sharper it is in person. I panned it regularly after seeing spy shots and in car ****. Live, it was a much smoother, flowing and subtly aggressive. Loved it. Hell, maybe if I see a GT-R in person I'll change my mind as well. (But I doubt it)
The GTR, not so much. Capable yes, but also fat and fugly.
03-03-2008, 09:06 PM
#182
Three Wheelin'
Don't mess with Perfection ????
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/29/n...th-perfection/
This is actually in the manual.
So there goes messing with the car...leave it as is according to Nissan
This is actually in the manual.
So there goes messing with the car...leave it as is according to Nissan
03-03-2008, 09:07 PM
#183
Team Owner
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/29/n...th-perfection/
This is actually in the manual.
So there goes messing with the car...leave it as is according to Nissan
This is actually in the manual.
So there goes messing with the car...leave it as is according to Nissan
03-03-2008, 10:39 PM
#184
Three Wheelin'
wow i can't believe i missed this. my 2 cents (OK I just finished typing, it's at least 3 cents)
never having driven it, i like the new-new GTR in theory, just like i liked the NSX. I personally like to think of sports cars independently of their cost when evaluating them in a vacuum, e.g. magazine racing, but when the chips are down obviously you have to ask yourself what you spend the money on.
The reason I mention the NSX is that it was so trick, so Honda F1, I mean Ayrton Senna in the tester's seat, every F1 driver at the time buying one and saying it was the fastest car for 99% of road driving situations, the most livable sports car ever, I mean the momentum Honda had at the time, the car was legendary before it was even launched.
My friend's sister was married to a cardiologist at that time who wanted to buy a new car, and us kids were all over the NSX. Before NOPI and tricked out hondas, we were all about the NSX, what kid wouldn't be? Ferrari looks & handling and RACE CAR drivers said it was the ONE. Motor Trend, Road & Track choosing it in comparison over comparison over the old guard.
The doctor went in to the Acura dealer, took out his checkbook, fade to black. He came back to the building in a brand new black 964 convertible. We all asked why on earth did you get that ugly old-man porsche? (because we all wanted to see that new Japanese ferrari and the hot porsche on the posters back then were the slant nose 930 turbos). He replied, "I thought about it, and for that kind of money I figured I should buy a nice car." The need for speed met the need for prestige. The modern Porsche buyer is born.
(no I know not all porsche buyers are this way, but many are, and at least where I roam, I feel the plurality are)
Why was the NSX never the runaway sales success in America that everyone thought it would be, knew it should be? In aiming at Ferrari, it unwittingly made a price-competitor of the 911, and anyone who has taken 90K out of their wallet (I mean the old fashioned cash, not modern financing) knows the need to feel you're getting your money's worth. The 911, without actually trying, was one of the primary reasons for the languishing of the NSX, solely because the NSX was sold in the 911's price slot.
All things old become new, and no one remembers the lessons of the past. Like the NSX, the GTR is in no way a natural competitor of a like-priced modern 911. But by being priced similarly, the grand majority of people will compare these vehicles, short of the most hardcore GT-R aficionado, the most avid import racer, and of course the most ardent Porsche fan. For true zealots, who do not make up as much of the buying population as they used to in these days of mass production, there simply is no substitute either way. Everyone else shops for these cars based on price, which is why you will hear people say they are considering a new 911, CLK63, M5 and other wholly disparate vehicles. they cost the same, so they get compared. But when the chips are down, unless you really do live for the track, most people want their 80 or 90K to deliver prestige as well as performance. Most people who just want performance, I mean all performance with no widely acknowledged badge snobbery, tend to shop down in EVO-territory. Us kids would've sold our left nuts for an NSX in 1990 or 91, because that's all we had. But if you worked hard for the money, you probably buy the Porsche, the Ferrari, the Benz, the "nice car". If you had a lot of money you didn't know what to do with, you would buy both and never drive either because you were too busy para sailing with movie stars or fending off supplicants.
Depending on certain age and socioeconomic and ethnic demographics, as well as weather, in certain areas of the country a Corvette may be King, a 911, an S8, an Enzo etc, and so it holds that certain people in certain places will hold the GT-R up as what it is, the long awaited US legal version of the greatest road car legacy Japan has to offer, an absolute monster of a car that gets around tracks with the best of them, and still drives home. But so long as it's in the same price range as a 911, it will never be the American sales success (measured by % market share in segment/class not dollar volume or units) that its little brother the regular skyline has been here (infiniti g35/g37 coupes). Even if it smashes every production car performance mark known to man, the GT-R simply won't set any sales records. And while I'm making unsolicited predictions, I will venture that they won't import too many, that demand will be met, and that they will not depreciate badly. They will be driven like they were stolen and stolen faster than they're driven. But most people considering a 911 won't buy one, some people considering a Cayman S may, and most people who look into buying a GT-R after reading a magazine will wind up in a black 911 cab or a new V8 M3 depending on their bias toward cash or credit. The GT-R is no doubt everything its fans expected it to be, its legacy is definitely going to remain intact, and due to its shorter model cycle will remain an incredible halo car for Nissan to keep crash testing and freighting into America. But a 911 it isn't, not here at least.
never having driven it, i like the new-new GTR in theory, just like i liked the NSX. I personally like to think of sports cars independently of their cost when evaluating them in a vacuum, e.g. magazine racing, but when the chips are down obviously you have to ask yourself what you spend the money on.
The reason I mention the NSX is that it was so trick, so Honda F1, I mean Ayrton Senna in the tester's seat, every F1 driver at the time buying one and saying it was the fastest car for 99% of road driving situations, the most livable sports car ever, I mean the momentum Honda had at the time, the car was legendary before it was even launched.
My friend's sister was married to a cardiologist at that time who wanted to buy a new car, and us kids were all over the NSX. Before NOPI and tricked out hondas, we were all about the NSX, what kid wouldn't be? Ferrari looks & handling and RACE CAR drivers said it was the ONE. Motor Trend, Road & Track choosing it in comparison over comparison over the old guard.
The doctor went in to the Acura dealer, took out his checkbook, fade to black. He came back to the building in a brand new black 964 convertible. We all asked why on earth did you get that ugly old-man porsche? (because we all wanted to see that new Japanese ferrari and the hot porsche on the posters back then were the slant nose 930 turbos). He replied, "I thought about it, and for that kind of money I figured I should buy a nice car." The need for speed met the need for prestige. The modern Porsche buyer is born.
(no I know not all porsche buyers are this way, but many are, and at least where I roam, I feel the plurality are)
Why was the NSX never the runaway sales success in America that everyone thought it would be, knew it should be? In aiming at Ferrari, it unwittingly made a price-competitor of the 911, and anyone who has taken 90K out of their wallet (I mean the old fashioned cash, not modern financing) knows the need to feel you're getting your money's worth. The 911, without actually trying, was one of the primary reasons for the languishing of the NSX, solely because the NSX was sold in the 911's price slot.
All things old become new, and no one remembers the lessons of the past. Like the NSX, the GTR is in no way a natural competitor of a like-priced modern 911. But by being priced similarly, the grand majority of people will compare these vehicles, short of the most hardcore GT-R aficionado, the most avid import racer, and of course the most ardent Porsche fan. For true zealots, who do not make up as much of the buying population as they used to in these days of mass production, there simply is no substitute either way. Everyone else shops for these cars based on price, which is why you will hear people say they are considering a new 911, CLK63, M5 and other wholly disparate vehicles. they cost the same, so they get compared. But when the chips are down, unless you really do live for the track, most people want their 80 or 90K to deliver prestige as well as performance. Most people who just want performance, I mean all performance with no widely acknowledged badge snobbery, tend to shop down in EVO-territory. Us kids would've sold our left nuts for an NSX in 1990 or 91, because that's all we had. But if you worked hard for the money, you probably buy the Porsche, the Ferrari, the Benz, the "nice car". If you had a lot of money you didn't know what to do with, you would buy both and never drive either because you were too busy para sailing with movie stars or fending off supplicants.
Depending on certain age and socioeconomic and ethnic demographics, as well as weather, in certain areas of the country a Corvette may be King, a 911, an S8, an Enzo etc, and so it holds that certain people in certain places will hold the GT-R up as what it is, the long awaited US legal version of the greatest road car legacy Japan has to offer, an absolute monster of a car that gets around tracks with the best of them, and still drives home. But so long as it's in the same price range as a 911, it will never be the American sales success (measured by % market share in segment/class not dollar volume or units) that its little brother the regular skyline has been here (infiniti g35/g37 coupes). Even if it smashes every production car performance mark known to man, the GT-R simply won't set any sales records. And while I'm making unsolicited predictions, I will venture that they won't import too many, that demand will be met, and that they will not depreciate badly. They will be driven like they were stolen and stolen faster than they're driven. But most people considering a 911 won't buy one, some people considering a Cayman S may, and most people who look into buying a GT-R after reading a magazine will wind up in a black 911 cab or a new V8 M3 depending on their bias toward cash or credit. The GT-R is no doubt everything its fans expected it to be, its legacy is definitely going to remain intact, and due to its shorter model cycle will remain an incredible halo car for Nissan to keep crash testing and freighting into America. But a 911 it isn't, not here at least.
Last edited by htny; 03-04-2008 at 04:46 AM.
03-03-2008, 10:48 PM
#185
Banned
wow i can't believe i missed this. my 2 cents (OK I just finished typing, it's at least 3 cents)
never having driven it, i like the new-new GTR in theory, just like i liked the NSX. I personally like to think of sports cars independently of their cost when evaluating them in a vacuum, e.g. magazine racing, but when the chips are down obviously you have to ask yourself what you spend the money on.
The reason I mention the NSX is that it was so trick, so Honda F1, I mean Ayrton Senna in the tester's seat, every F1 driver at the time buying one and saying it was the fastest car for 99% of road driving situations, the most livable sports car ever, I mean the momentum Honda had at the time, the car was legendary before it was even launched.
My friend's sister was married to a cardiologist at that time who wanted to buy a new car, and us kids were all over the NSX. Before NOPI and tricked out hondas, we were all about the NSX, what kid wouldn't be? Ferrari looks & handling and RACE CAR drivers said it was the ONE. Motor Trend, Road & Track choosing it in comparison over comparison over the old guard.
The doctor went in to the Acura dealer, took out his checkbook, fade to black. He came back to the building in a brand new black 964 convertible. We all asked why on earth did you get that ugly old-man porsche? (because we all wanted to see that new Japanese ferrari and the hot porsche on the posters back then were the slant nose 930 turbos). He replied, "I thought about it, and for that kind of money I figured I should buy a nice car." The need for speed met the need for prestige. The modern Porsche buyer is born.
(no I know not all porsche buyers are this way, but many are, and at least where I roam, I feel the plurality are)
Why was the NSX never the runaway sales success in America that everyone thought it would be, knew it should be? In aiming at Ferrari, it unwittingly made a price-competitor of the 911, and anyone who has taken 90K out of their wallet (I mean the cash, not financing) knows the need to feel you're getting your money's worth. The 911, without actually trying, was one of the primary reasons for the languishing of the NSX, solely because the NSX was sold in the 911's price slot.
All things old become new, and no one considers the lessons of the past. Like the NSX, the GTR is in no way a natural competitor of a like-priced modern 911. But by being priced similarly, the grand majority of people will compare these vehicles, short of the most hardcore GT-R aficionado, the most avid import racer, and of course the most ardent Porsche fan. For true zealots, who do not make up as much of the buying population as they used to in these days of mass production, there simply is no substitute either way. Everyone else shops for these cars based on price, which is why you will hear people say they are considering a new 911, CLK63, M5 and other wholly disparate vehicles. they cost the same, so they get compared. But when the chips are down, unless you really do live for the track, most people want their 80 or 90K to deliver prestige as well as performance. Most people who just want performance, I mean all performance with no widely acknowledged badge snobbery, tend to shop down in EVO-territory. Us kids would've sold our left nuts for an NSX in 1990 or 91, because that's all we had. But if you worked hard for the money, you probably buy the Porsche, the Ferrari, the Benz, the "nice car". If you had a lot of money you didn't know what to do with, you would buy both and never drive either because you were too busy para sailing with movie stars or fending off supplicants.
Depending on certain age and socioeconomic and ethnic demographics, as well as weather, in certain areas of the country a Corvette may be King, a 911, an S8, an Enzo etc, and so it holds that certain people in certain places will hold the GT-R up as what it is, the long awaited US legal version of the greatest road car legacy Japan has to offer, an absolute monster of a car that gets around tracks with the best of them, and still drives home. But so long as it's in the same price range as a 911, it will never be the American sales success (measured by % market share in segment/class not dollar volume or units) that its little brother the regular skyline has been here (infiniti g35/g37 coupes). Even if it smashes every production car performance mark known to man, the GT-R simply won't set any sales records. And while I'm making unsolicited predictions, I will venture that they won't import too many, that demand will be met, and that they will not depreciate badly. They will be driven like they were stolen and stolen faster than they're driven. But most people considering a 911 won't buy one, some people considering a Cayman S may, and most people who look into buying a GT-R after reading a magazine will wind up in a black 911 cab or a new V8 M3 depending on their bias toward cash or credit. The GT-R is no doubt everything its fans expected it to be, its legacy is definitely going to remain intact, and due to its shorter model cycle will remain an incredible halo car for Nissan to keep crash testing and freighting into America.
never having driven it, i like the new-new GTR in theory, just like i liked the NSX. I personally like to think of sports cars independently of their cost when evaluating them in a vacuum, e.g. magazine racing, but when the chips are down obviously you have to ask yourself what you spend the money on.
The reason I mention the NSX is that it was so trick, so Honda F1, I mean Ayrton Senna in the tester's seat, every F1 driver at the time buying one and saying it was the fastest car for 99% of road driving situations, the most livable sports car ever, I mean the momentum Honda had at the time, the car was legendary before it was even launched.
My friend's sister was married to a cardiologist at that time who wanted to buy a new car, and us kids were all over the NSX. Before NOPI and tricked out hondas, we were all about the NSX, what kid wouldn't be? Ferrari looks & handling and RACE CAR drivers said it was the ONE. Motor Trend, Road & Track choosing it in comparison over comparison over the old guard.
The doctor went in to the Acura dealer, took out his checkbook, fade to black. He came back to the building in a brand new black 964 convertible. We all asked why on earth did you get that ugly old-man porsche? (because we all wanted to see that new Japanese ferrari and the hot porsche on the posters back then were the slant nose 930 turbos). He replied, "I thought about it, and for that kind of money I figured I should buy a nice car." The need for speed met the need for prestige. The modern Porsche buyer is born.
(no I know not all porsche buyers are this way, but many are, and at least where I roam, I feel the plurality are)
Why was the NSX never the runaway sales success in America that everyone thought it would be, knew it should be? In aiming at Ferrari, it unwittingly made a price-competitor of the 911, and anyone who has taken 90K out of their wallet (I mean the cash, not financing) knows the need to feel you're getting your money's worth. The 911, without actually trying, was one of the primary reasons for the languishing of the NSX, solely because the NSX was sold in the 911's price slot.
All things old become new, and no one considers the lessons of the past. Like the NSX, the GTR is in no way a natural competitor of a like-priced modern 911. But by being priced similarly, the grand majority of people will compare these vehicles, short of the most hardcore GT-R aficionado, the most avid import racer, and of course the most ardent Porsche fan. For true zealots, who do not make up as much of the buying population as they used to in these days of mass production, there simply is no substitute either way. Everyone else shops for these cars based on price, which is why you will hear people say they are considering a new 911, CLK63, M5 and other wholly disparate vehicles. they cost the same, so they get compared. But when the chips are down, unless you really do live for the track, most people want their 80 or 90K to deliver prestige as well as performance. Most people who just want performance, I mean all performance with no widely acknowledged badge snobbery, tend to shop down in EVO-territory. Us kids would've sold our left nuts for an NSX in 1990 or 91, because that's all we had. But if you worked hard for the money, you probably buy the Porsche, the Ferrari, the Benz, the "nice car". If you had a lot of money you didn't know what to do with, you would buy both and never drive either because you were too busy para sailing with movie stars or fending off supplicants.
Depending on certain age and socioeconomic and ethnic demographics, as well as weather, in certain areas of the country a Corvette may be King, a 911, an S8, an Enzo etc, and so it holds that certain people in certain places will hold the GT-R up as what it is, the long awaited US legal version of the greatest road car legacy Japan has to offer, an absolute monster of a car that gets around tracks with the best of them, and still drives home. But so long as it's in the same price range as a 911, it will never be the American sales success (measured by % market share in segment/class not dollar volume or units) that its little brother the regular skyline has been here (infiniti g35/g37 coupes). Even if it smashes every production car performance mark known to man, the GT-R simply won't set any sales records. And while I'm making unsolicited predictions, I will venture that they won't import too many, that demand will be met, and that they will not depreciate badly. They will be driven like they were stolen and stolen faster than they're driven. But most people considering a 911 won't buy one, some people considering a Cayman S may, and most people who look into buying a GT-R after reading a magazine will wind up in a black 911 cab or a new V8 M3 depending on their bias toward cash or credit. The GT-R is no doubt everything its fans expected it to be, its legacy is definitely going to remain intact, and due to its shorter model cycle will remain an incredible halo car for Nissan to keep crash testing and freighting into America.
p.s. went to ktown le cercle on Friday nite (crazy) and then had dinner with my date at katana and met up with more friends across the street at the mondrian skybar (saturday nite and the place of my stay for the weekend) - good times, thx for the katana recommendation.
03-03-2008, 11:02 PM
#186
Three Wheelin'
i knew my boy would step up
p.s. went to ktown le cercle on Friday nite (crazy) and then had dinner with my date at katana and met up with more friends across the street at the mondrian skybar (saturday nite and the place of my stay for the weekend) - good times, thx for the katana recommendation.
p.s. went to ktown le cercle on Friday nite (crazy) and then had dinner with my date at katana and met up with more friends across the street at the mondrian skybar (saturday nite and the place of my stay for the weekend) - good times, thx for the katana recommendation.
03-04-2008, 12:30 AM
#187
Banned
Hey, I'm glad you had fun! I actually had to travel a little what with the underpinnings of the markets unravelling so haven't been on here, didn't realize you had come and gone! You got some good weather by all accounts. It was still nice when I got back on Sunday but I heard Friday/Saturday were quality LA weather. So... Did you like the food at Katana? Did your date slap you on account of your wandering eye? (I wear protective headgear) Did you wind up in the pool at Sky?
the food was good, but honestly i didn't get to focus on it too much since i had to entertain a guest. she turned out to be a quality gal. definitely lots of eye candy, but somehow i managed. le cercle was great fun. skybar was packed and i'd def stay at the mondrian again. i wish i had a chance to enjoy the pool on sunday (more eye candy just dressed in less), but i got up at noon and had to check out rather briskly.
to keep this somewhat car related, spotted a very nicely lowered 20" deep dish wheels V10 M5 on sunset - looked fantastic. saw your bevy of bentleys and porsches including what i believe to be a 997/8 test mule as it had the LED rear lights that i've seen in spy shots on this site. just eye candy all around town both mechanical and biological.
i'm going to PM you if you don't mind.
03-04-2008, 08:19 PM
#188
Three Wheelin'
Back to the real reason for this thread, although it still should be in Off-Topic:
GT-R vs. GT3
http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetev...rsche_gt3.html
GT-R vs. GT3
http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetev...rsche_gt3.html
03-04-2008, 09:20 PM
#190
Ironman 140.6
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
03-04-2008, 10:24 PM
#191
Instructor
Join Date: May 2007
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The GTR will be a great used car to buy when the fuss is over and you don't have to pay $20,000 over MSRP to get one. I'd rather a 996TT personally though and I'm a Japanese car guy (bought my NSX before my 964).
03-04-2008, 10:38 PM
#192
Banned
there's no way i'd take a 996TT over a GTR. 997TT diff story. now a 996GT3... tougher, but i'd still take the gtr.
997 GT3... no doubt. 997TT yea, but not as no doubt as the GT-Treezy
997 GT3... no doubt. 997TT yea, but not as no doubt as the GT-Treezy
03-04-2008, 11:05 PM
#193
Instructor
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One thing I was wondering about is who do you get to work on your GTR, the GTR is a very complex car, it's like a computer with wheels, I just can't imagine most Nissan dealerships having mechanics that are ready for this car.
03-05-2008, 08:30 AM
#194
Drifting
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Only the dealerships that sell the GTR will be trained and have the equipement to service it.
I guess it's the same reason I bought my NSX instead of a C5 Z06, the Z06 would have been a lot faster, but it's not what I wanted.
One thing I was wondering about is who do you get to work on your GTR, the GTR is a very complex car, it's like a computer with wheels, I just can't imagine most Nissan dealerships having mechanics that are ready for this car.
One thing I was wondering about is who do you get to work on your GTR, the GTR is a very complex car, it's like a computer with wheels, I just can't imagine most Nissan dealerships having mechanics that are ready for this car.
03-05-2008, 08:26 PM
#195
Racer
I was at Irvine Cars & Coffee on Saturday and saw a black right hand drive GTR with a temporary Florida plate on the back. My guess is it's a demonstrator. Anyway, it had a huge crowd around it. I took a good look at it and noted that it is a huge car. The car's looks were not for me, that's for sure; big, blocky and with too many inclusive angles for my taste.
Everything I've read and seen, however, says that this car is superb and almost unmatched in every performance arena. There might be a handful of cars that can beat it in one or two areas, but in an overall sense I'd say that this car might be the most accomplished car ever made. Btw, Nissan has a proven competition record. Look at the GTP and IMSA cars of the '80's and 90's.
Would I buy one? Probably not. It just doesn't look good to me. YMMV, of course.
Everything I've read and seen, however, says that this car is superb and almost unmatched in every performance arena. There might be a handful of cars that can beat it in one or two areas, but in an overall sense I'd say that this car might be the most accomplished car ever made. Btw, Nissan has a proven competition record. Look at the GTP and IMSA cars of the '80's and 90's.
Would I buy one? Probably not. It just doesn't look good to me. YMMV, of course.