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Old Apr 26, 2024 | 05:51 PM
  #8881  
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If it's any indication, the first track day of the year was well represented by 5-6 different 996s. 2 of us were instructors so 3-4 were in the novice group. Haven't seen this type of showing since the early 2010s. Didn't get the chance to ask them if they were new owners due rain showers hitting at lunch and everybody scattering. But old long time owners of 996 don't just start tracking their cars all of a sudden. So my guess is new owners.

My wild guess is that there will continue to be a wave of new buyers of 996s that are younger and many may try them out on the track. Doubt they are low mileage collectibles.
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Old Apr 26, 2024 | 06:39 PM
  #8882  
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Originally Posted by GC996
If it's any indication, the first track day of the year was well represented by 5-6 different 996s. 2 of us were instructors so 3-4 were in the novice group. Haven't seen this type of showing since the early 2010s. Didn't get the chance to ask them if they were new owners due rain showers hitting at lunch and everybody scattering. But old long time owners of 996 don't just start tracking their cars all of a sudden. So my guess is new owners.

My wild guess is that there will continue to be a wave of new buyers of 996s that are younger and many may try them out on the track. Doubt they are low mileage collectibles.
They are seen as affordable, but I would imagine the Caymans are as well.
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Old Apr 26, 2024 | 06:40 PM
  #8883  
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Originally Posted by GC996
first track day of the year was well represented by 5-6 different 996s
How many survived the day

Kidding aside, I've tracked a couple of different cars but I'm just too scared to take my 996. Too many horror stories of oil pressure loss and/or blown AOSs. Maybe one day I'll get over it and really get to know the limits of this car
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Old Apr 26, 2024 | 07:10 PM
  #8884  
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Originally Posted by SRMPDX
How many survived the day

Kidding aside, I've tracked a couple of different cars but I'm just too scared to take my 996. Too many horror stories of oil pressure loss and/or blown AOSs. Maybe one day I'll get over it and really get to know the limits of this car
Believe it or not, the M96 engine likes to be tracked and is pretty durable. I have been tracking mine since 2004. ~90 track days half of which have been on hoosiers in the fastest run group. The key to the engine is to mitigate the risk of oil starvation/oil pressure drops, prevent hydralock and keep the water temps and oil temps contained.

To mitigate oil starvation use either a 2qt deep sump or the UIDS in combination with the UAOS track version which gives you an additional 1-2 quarts of oil as well. An extra 2 quarts if you pass Skips blow-test. If you add this up, you get 3-4 more qts of oil. Our engines like lots and lots of fresh high quality oil. Many are discussing the benefits of using 50 vs 40 weight oil in our engines on the track.

To mitigate hydralock use the UAOS Track version vs the OEM AOS or the Porsche Motorsports AOS. It captures the oil under heavy Gs and sends it back to the sump instead of the heads/cylinders. Plus the ability to handle an extra 1-2 qts of oil above full as mentioned above.

To mitigate temps, make sure your water cooling system is functioning properly and your radiators are clean. You can get a low temp thermostat, third radiator as well as upgrade your oil cooler from the 996 to 997S cooler for more cooling. But all you really have to do is make sure you keep your track time to 20 min and then cool it down on the cool down lap and then take it for a cool down lap around the paddock.

Just make sure you test your oil, drop the sump and cut open the oil filter to see what's in them, and scope your bores to see their condition. Skip will tell you to get a blow-by test as well. A bad engine, mezger or M96 won't last long on the track. Doesnt matter what you bolt on for prevention with a bad engine. Oh yeah, make sure you have fresh oil in the engine that can handle the rigors and heat for a track day. For sure, make sure you are running a great IMSB.

No guarentees, but pretty straightforward and easy to do. But eventually every emgine known to man will need to be rebuilt. Unfortunately, the laws of physics always wins.

Last edited by GC996; Apr 26, 2024 at 07:29 PM.
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Old Apr 26, 2024 | 09:30 PM
  #8885  
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Originally Posted by GC996
Believe it or not, the M96 engine likes to be tracked and is pretty durable. I have been tracking mine since 2004. ~90 track days half of which have been on hoosiers in the fastest run group. The key to the engine is to mitigate the risk of oil starvation/oil pressure drops, prevent hydralock and keep the water temps and oil temps contained.

To mitigate oil starvation use either a 2qt deep sump or the UIDS in combination with the UAOS track version which gives you an additional 1-2 quarts of oil as well. An extra 2 quarts if you pass Skips blow-test. If you add this up, you get 3-4 more qts of oil. Our engines like lots and lots of fresh high quality oil. Many are discussing the benefits of using 50 vs 40 weight oil in our engines on the track.

To mitigate hydralock use the UAOS Track version vs the OEM AOS or the Porsche Motorsports AOS. It captures the oil under heavy Gs and sends it back to the sump instead of the heads/cylinders. Plus the ability to handle an extra 1-2 qts of oil above full as mentioned above.

To mitigate temps, make sure your water cooling system is functioning properly and your radiators are clean. You can get a low temp thermostat, third radiator as well as upgrade your oil cooler from the 996 to 997S cooler for more cooling. But all you really have to do is make sure you keep your track time to 20 min and then cool it down on the cool down lap and then take it for a cool down lap around the paddock.

Just make sure you test your oil, drop the sump and cut open the oil filter to see what's in them, and scope your bores to see their condition. Skip will tell you to get a blow-by test as well. A bad engine, mezger or M96 won't last long on the track. Doesnt matter what you bolt on for prevention with a bad engine. Oh yeah, make sure you have fresh oil in the engine that can handle the rigors and heat for a track day. For sure, make sure you are running a great IMSB.

No guarentees, but pretty straightforward and easy to do. But eventually every emgine known to man will need to be rebuilt. Unfortunately, the laws of physics always wins.
This is all great info, thanks!
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Old Apr 26, 2024 | 09:51 PM
  #8886  
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Originally Posted by plpete84
Agreed and those represent a fairly small chunk of the market. People have been paying a premium for low miles and paint colors so this is nothing new. I'm more curious to see how cars with 80 - 100k+ miles that have been driven and cared for do out on the market. Even then, these are cars that saw 5k miles/year or less! That's a more realistic representation of whether the prices are drifting up or not.
They're flat or drifting down with the general market. Here's a 996 targa tip with 94K miles that appears well kept -- $22.4K.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...rrera-targa-3/
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Old Apr 27, 2024 | 08:44 PM
  #8887  
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Originally Posted by wdb
They're flat or drifting down with the general market. Here's a 996 targa tip with 94K miles that appears well kept -- $22.4K.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...rrera-targa-3/
Miles, tip and most of all a Carfax with moderate damage history. $23,550 all-in -- I'd say that's all the money for that example. 50K miles, 6spd and clean Carfax; that car pulls $30-$32K all day long.
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Old Apr 28, 2024 | 07:18 PM
  #8888  
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Let's see how this one fares:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-cabriolet-55/
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Old May 1, 2024 | 07:33 AM
  #8889  
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Originally Posted by Marv
They are seen as affordable, but I would imagine the Caymans are as well.
For sure Marv. Caymans and especially Boxsters are very affordable and extremely well-balanced cars for the track. Everything we discuss here on Rennlist regarding preventive solutions for the 996 apply to the 986, 987 and 997.1 M9X engine.

If history is any guide, as the newer model 911s, Caymans and Boxsters role off of their warranties and the reality sets in as to the huge cost to service and maintain the newer and more technically complicated models...
we will most likely see ownership turnover and less of the newer models post warranty on the track and an inevitable migration back towards the M9X models.

At the end of the day, whether we like to admit it or not, money (out of pocket cost) drives the decisions of every human being. If you have the Porsche bug, but don't want the service costs of maintaining a newer model 911, Cayman or Boxster post warranty, the 997, 996, 987 and 986 look very attractive. Especially if you want to enjoy the car on the track.
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Old May 2, 2024 | 01:11 PM
  #8890  
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Originally Posted by GC996
For sure Marv. Caymans and especially Boxsters are very affordable and extremely well-balanced cars for the track. Everything we discuss here on Rennlist regarding preventive solutions for the 996 apply to the 986, 987 and 997.1 M9X engine.

If history is any guide, as the newer model 911s, Caymans and Boxsters role off of their warranties and the reality sets in as to the huge cost to service and maintain the newer and more technically complicated models...
we will most likely see ownership turnover and less of the newer models post warranty on the track and an inevitable migration back towards the M9X models.

At the end of the day, whether we like to admit it or not, money (out of pocket cost) drives the decisions of every human being. If you have the Porsche bug, but don't want the service costs of maintaining a newer model 911, Cayman or Boxster post warranty, the 997, 996, 987 and 986 look very attractive. Especially if you want to enjoy the car on the track.
I'm not clear on the impact, but as these more technologically packed cars get older I can't imagine the cost of ownership will not drive some of the market away, and subsequently we should see more depressed prices for out of warranty cars. It's a frustrating problem. At some point my wife's Macan will fall out of warranty, too. I just can't see buying a new car every 4 to 6 years and one (of several) reasons I refuse to sell my GT3.
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Old May 2, 2024 | 01:14 PM
  #8891  
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Im curious to see where this one ends today
https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/2...che-996-targa/
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Old May 2, 2024 | 01:24 PM
  #8892  
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Originally Posted by Marv
Bubble is over. Wait for the next bubble.
Here in Italy 996 MK2 with manual transmission are approacing near €50k, 4S near €60k and Turbo over 70/75k.
Obviously we talk about well mantained cars.
Tiptronic are less desiderables. 996 3.4 are a little bit cheaper.
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Old May 2, 2024 | 02:00 PM
  #8893  
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Go long M96 and short the M9A1/M9A2.
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Old May 2, 2024 | 03:06 PM
  #8894  
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Originally Posted by GC996
Believe it or not, the M96 engine likes to be tracked and is pretty durable. I have been tracking mine since 2004. ~90 track days half of which have been on hoosiers in the fastest run group. The key to the engine is to mitigate the risk of oil starvation/oil pressure drops, prevent hydralock and keep the water temps and oil temps contained.
Long story short: you need significant modifications to enjoy your stock M96/7 on track. I never dared to do it either.
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Old May 2, 2024 | 03:20 PM
  #8895  
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Originally Posted by frederik
Long story short: you need significant modifications to enjoy your stock M96/7 on track. I never dared to do it either.
Yep. But it's easy to do. Bolt on the right parts and then take them off if you want to go back to stock. Problem is folks just go "stock" or add only a 0.5 qt oil pan and then they wonder why their engine failed. Then they start belly aching about the m96. Human nature I guess.

Kinda like attempting to run a marathon in business dress shoes when you should be running in the appropriate athletic "running" shoes.
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