pcarhombre

Calling The Fister Boys! With a pair of cermachrome Stage 2's, we might not notice the rest of the underbelly. I'm just sayin....

JPP

O.k., apoligies upfront for the 'waxing eternal' here and temporary hijack. All JMHO for what it's worth and hopefully some clarification for some ...

This is a very tough question because there aren't many facts and details surrounding the 'factory produced' cars and for many 'pursits', this is the white elephant in the room.

Streather's book says 7 993 Speedsters were built at the factory through the 'Exclusive' department at Porsche as custom one-off cars, no 993 'production' Speedsters were ever produced. The first one was a narrow body car for Butzi Porsche's 60th birthday, built in 1995 (MY1996) and then 6 wide bodies were built in MY1997 by the same 'Exclusive' department, one of which went to Mark Porsche. I use these two as an example because they are the only ones I have seen pictures of, that were definitively attached to their owners. There's much Urban Legend regarding where the other 5 were delivered but I have heard from more than a few sources that two of them were made for special customers in the U.S. not including the Seinfeld car. I've always assumed these 7 were built from scratch using Cabriolet 'whitebodies' and were internally numbered and produced much like the 964 production Speedsters were.

964 Speedsters were produced as Option M503 on a Cabriolet chassis and retained the Cabriolet vin number convention letter 'C' for U.S./Canada export (WPOCB. Europe's/R.O.W. vin convention is the same for all 993 models, and for both types of production it's the last 6 serial numbers that are assigned to each model in both cases that ultimately differentiates so there nothing about either type that is 'Speedster Unique' except the last 6 numbers in each sequence. Here's the sequences for 964 Production Speedsters:
R.O.W. 964 Speedsters - WPOZZZ96ZRS455001 to 455581
U.S./Canada 964 Speedsters - WPOCB296CRS465001 to 465469

It would make sense that Porsche, planning for any 'unforseen' circumstances probably put two sets of sequential serial numbers aside for the 'Exclusive' run of 6 widebody 993 Speedsters, one set for R.O.W. and one set for U.S./Canada, assuming the rumors of two going to U.S. customers are true. It's also possible that they simply 'pulled' 6 numbers from the Cabriolet sequence for MY1997 and got to work, but historically that's not how Porsche has handled special cars in the past like Special order 4-Cam Carrera's, 911ST's, 914-6GT's or slope nose cars, they almost always have a series of sequential numbers put aside if they are producing a 'group' of cars.

I have heard that Jerry Seinfeld's Speedster was originally delivered to him as a one-off 'Exclusive Department' widebody Cabriolet. Then he heard about the 6 WB Speedsters being produced, so he made a deal with Porsche to have his WB Cab shipped back to the factory and converted. It would make sense since the car already existed and had been brought through U.S. Customs/D.O.T. that the factory retained it's original vin number which would not be part of the sequence of vin numbers put aside for the original 6 cars, meaning, it's probable that his vin is part of the normal production run of Cabriolets.

Having said all that, what are the value of these cars? IMHO the cars that went to Porsche family members are, well, priceless and I can't imagine the family or the company allowing them to be sold to anyone. The other remaining cars from the original 6 widebodies produced by the factory are extremely valuable to collectors because they are 'factory' produced cars and I would put Seinfeld's car in that group as it was 'factory' produced, just not with the original 6. The actual value would certainly be dictated by market conditions but as beautiful and rare as they are, at auction, I would venture to guess they would sell in the high six figures if not 7 figure range. Just an opinion, flame suit on. It's likely none of these cars will exchange hands in my lifetime, and even if they did, I don't frequent the types of circles that deal in these kinds of transactions, so I wouldn't know about it anyway.

Where does that leave the privately built cars? Well, the laws of supply and demand really seem to dictate their value, but the quality of the conversion work and the use of factory parts certainly makes a big difference in potential value. I think the conversions that follow factory specs and use factory parts will be the most sought after and the most valuable of all, especially if they're well documented.

Freisinger Motorsports, the Porsche dealer in Karlsruhe, Germany, built a handful of 993 Speedsters for special customers when the factory refused to build more. I understand the factory put together special 'kits' for each conversion and sent them as a package to the dealer where they were produced much like Porsche did for the 914-6GT Racing Customers in the U.S. These cars seem to command a premium just based on the Freisinger name (big Motorsports presence) and the fact that they were sanctioned by Porsche and these cars obviously have Cabriolet serial numbers from the normal production sequence because they were delivered to Freisinger as finished Cabriolet's and that sets precedent that vin numbers aren't a value driving factor.

The overriding fact that will drive up prices on converted cars is there's a finite supply of factory parts. Very finite. Some of the bigger parts are already no longer available and must be supplied from the tiny number of 'donor' 964 Speedsters that have been wrecked/salvaged if the parts survived. I think this fact makes any conversion that's built to factory spec's using factory parts a very rare car and the value of that goes beyond the actual cost of producing one. The fact is, you may want to have one made, but can't because there simply aren't enough parts left to make one from. All of that makes these cars very very valuable, and very soon, irreplaceable without destroying an existing 964 factory Speedster. So, value at what it would cost to 'build' one would be the absolute minimum value if all parts were always available.

Now back to our regular Cobalt Speedster programming ...

grahampeterm

Thanks JPP for that synopsis! The actual numbers of 993 Speedsters are still only a handful (may be a pair of hands!), but I think it’s safe to say – no ones built a right hand drive before.
And now the UK officialdom (Department of Vehicle Licencing Authority) recognise the car as a 911 Speedster! The registration document now shows that, rather than the 911 Carrera Convertible that it was previously registered as.

Look what you’ve started now Colin with that pesky camera! The engines nice and clean – but those exhaust boxes that go through many heat cycles look ‘used’. Yep they are – but fear not, unless I’ve just reversed over you or it’s up on the ramps, you’ll never see them. The car will be adorned with a pair of nice new shiny tips – the exact type to be revealed – narrow body ones have to go!

I could rush out and buy a brand new pair of shiny mufflers – like I have done previously with a PSE on my 997S, a Tubi on my 997 Turbo and the QuickSilver currently fitted to my Aston – they look fantastic fresh out of the packaging, but once they’re on they discolour and you never see them.
However – if this a Rennlist must have, I’ll open a ‘Just Giving’ charity account, aptly named ‘Let’s buy Graham a shiny set of mufflers’ and all contributions will gratefully be received!
In the mean time, I might just do some phoning around and see if I can arrange a ‘publicity deal’ with a suitable supplier!
Graham


PS - Just looked at Colin's pictures again - those mufflers do look cr@p - but I MUST RESIST THE TEMPTATION!!!

pcarhombre

Graham, the reason the Fister product came to mind because you send them your cores, and they send you out bling! Less than the cost of optioning new ones. (Of course I have no idea what the shipping costs would be.) Besides, I love to pass along what I have learned on this forum; the joy of spending other people's money

NineMeister

Hear, hear.


Hold on a minute! Look what I've done with the camera. Who was it who started the photo record & asked me to take snaps on the days he could not drop in??


OK, so here's the deal. We cut the bolts off the joints & remove the silencers for you. You mask up the ends with gaffer tape and spend a couple of hours using our bead blast cabinet. Then we can either refit them as they are or you can give them a quick flick over with a can of silver HT exhaust paint before they go back on. Silencers thus look new for the finish of the car, everyone on here is happy and by the time the paint falls off, nobody will be looking or care. Sound like a deal??

At least it will give you something to do next week Graham whilst we are away!

dunavantent

This project reminds me of a Burned 1997 Carrera S I bought years ago. I was suppost to turn that car into a speedster. But I welded another roof on the car. Found the red gas tank on the floor that was used to burn the car. Insurance co. didn't care. <br>

bramblegrower

Hey!! Those are my cans!

Beautiful car, wonderful project. Thanks for letting us follow along!!!

grahampeterm

Looks like I've found myself a job to do next week! Thanks Colin

G

grahampeterm

Nice colour / color!
Graham

chris walrod

Dont paint over stainless! Like you say, it wont last long. Have them plated.

I want to say this thread is a great one just like the car being built -- !! keep up the progress images as well!

I hear what you say about the countless hours (and non-billable) spent to clean parts that otherwise will never be seen again. I fall victim to this as well, all too often. I guess it IS the OCD in all of us!!

gonz911

Subscribed.

NineMeister

Back to the plot...

The bulk of the undercarriage has now been fitted, so with a few spare wheels fitted we could get the car off the ramp to work on block sanding the plue primer in readiness for painting tomorrow. The first couple of pics show the lads working on the panels flatting off the satin black guide coat, which can be seen on the untouched turbo rear quarter. The final three pics are the finished panels ready for cleaning & paint.

NineMeister

So whilst Neil and Lee were busy working on the shell, Phil donned the paint suit and spent the afternoon painting the doors, bonnet, engine lid & spoiler; in the booth Phil's having a close look at the coverage of the laquer whilst it is still wet.

Looking good so far?

jdistefa

Colin,

Looking sweeeeet. Funny how everyone here loves the shiny bits underneath our cars .

We should pool some Rennlist funds and fly Andreas over there with a case of Xenit.....

JPP

Awesome metallic color. This thread is like opening a big Porsche present each day ...:-)

If you'll send me with him, I'll carry his bags, hand him his tools, pick up the dirty rags and sweep the shop after ....