Patton250

Fair enough man. And its not always about understanding capitalism. Sometimes it’s just refusal to accept how capitalism works. You have every right to that which means you spend your money how you want. That’s also part of capitalism. :-)

Remember this. It’s because of capitalism that we are all sitting here arguing about the prices of high-end luxury sports cars. They don’t have this problem in countries where capitalism is frowned upon.

rk-d

Free market, supply/demand- clearly the market will bear an ADM. 911s are not an essential good, so price gouging is not part of the conversation. And yes, the free market allowed discounts in the past because that's the way a free market works.

That said - the lack of precedent for these ADMs is what throws people off. It's annoying that a 911 which was once readily available and routinely sold at discount is now being upcharged. It's annoying that (some) dealers are not respecting old relationships/traditions and selling to the highest bidder. It is what it is. Yet another part of our world that now sucks.

ADMs are local market dependent. I do think that Porsche ought to restrict dealerships to territories to prevent local high end markets influencing values in cheaper markets - ie the price of a 911 in Los Angeles driving up the price in Jackson, MS. I think there is a reasonable argument to be made there.

Patton250

Cool man. I agree with you. Do you know why? Do you know what will happen then? The same thing that’s happening in the freaking watch world. What will happen then is I’ll buy the Porsche at retail and turn around and sell it for a huge mark up the next day. Genius. I like your idea. Then things will really get out of control. What part of people are paying the prices are you guys not understanding? Who should get the extra money? The manufacturer? The dealer? Or the end user? Someone’s going to get the extra money (at this point in time) because somebody’s willing to pay the freaking markup. Man it’s been eight years since I drank alcohol I think I’m gonna go get hammered

Matjaz

Totally agree with free market assessment and as OP I was just venting...it is what it is. If you look around, you can see Ford going after dealerships for asking high ADM for F-150 lightning and now going to direct online sales with EV's. Tesla did it first decade ago by skipping the dealership model which is completely outdated. I dread every time I have to go and talk to a dealer. I could as easy click buy in the Porsche configurator, pay deposit and be done with it. But that is me.

Patton250

I’m starting to think that some of you must really hate auctions. I mean talk about markup. Talk about the highest bidder. Some of you guys must think they are absolutely evil. Lol

Matjaz

Even though I partially agree with that, I do think that as a Porsche, I would love my cars to go to people who enjoy them and appreciate them and drive them. Same as in watch world. Rolex has the same problem. People who are just flipping them are not customers Porsche wants in the long run.

ENCT

Cool man. I agree with you. Do you know why? Do you know what will happen then? The same thing that’s happening in the freaking watch world.
Made out pretty well on a White Daytona 3 months ago, things in the watch world starting to go south as we type.

Patton250

Yes and they are only flipping those watches because people are willing to pay the extra markup just like they are with certain new Porsche cars. That’s changing in the Watch world right now because the economy is tanking. I am imagine the same thing will happen with luxury cars. ADM is nothing more than a result of a great economy and low supply of cars combined. Well the economy is starting to suck and I imagine they will get caught up with parts and supplies soon enough and when those two things happen we will be back at discounts again. No one will be angry at that.

Patton250

Very true my friend very true. I’m glad for that also. I love Watches. I doubt Daytonas will ever sell in the secondary market anywhere close to retail again no matter how bad the economy gets though. I could be wrong however. I’m wrong quite often if you ask my wife.

dhirm5

That's the dream.

pitt911

Porsche already restricts out of region sale by awarding less allocations to dealers that sell out of their region. Having said that , that is only one out of many other measures that Porsche look at when giving dealer allocations
another measure is sale volume , so in reality you sell 100 911 in total a year mostly out of your region as a small market dealer. Porsche will give you may be two less allocations next year. So you get 98 allocations
but if you sell 50 cars in your market , then you get 50 allocations next year .So overall , dealers are ahead if they sell in and out of their region
Classic example of this is Porsche Beachwood
several years ago they started an ad campaign : free nationwide shipping on all 911 and their sales went through the roof.
and the benefit from selling more 911 , they got more allocations not only for regular 911, but also for GT cars .Gt cars as we all know are big money makers and even in normal markets you can sell above MSRP . Though Beachwood sold at MSRP but they low balled your trade .
overall a free market system is not perfect , but is the best system

nyca

Porsche aside, what's happening in the broader auto market - I am not buying the "supply chain" breakdown, now in year #3 with no end in sight. Auto sales down 18.7% the last two months, will tank further as loan and lease rates rise. Yet automaker and dealer profits are at record highs. They all like the market just where it is. They can constrain the ICE supply and still make record profits, while they transition their manufacturing base to EVs (that come with government subsidies which they can pocket). They are never going to give up the current model, they will be talking about supply chain problems 2 years from now as well. They will simply make less cars, keep the dealer lots sparse to maintain the no inventory model and justify the ADMs. It goes all the way down to Kia and Hyundai dealers. The middle/working class is being shutout from the new car market, perhaps permanently for their lifetimes, they will be relegated to the used car market only.

Matjaz

I'm waiting for White Daytona and have great relationship with my AD, but there are just no allocation. I don't really need it so I'm willing to wait (currently up to 5 years).

rk-d

Watches are easier to sell than cars. Yes, you’ll get the flippers but it’s not the same type of market and I seriously doubt it would be as pervasive an issue with cars. People still prefer to buy a new car from the dealer - they aren’t as particular about watches.

I bought my ceramic Daytona outside the dealer network. I ended up paying an effective $5k ADM for the watch, which killed me at the time, but in hindsight was a great deal. That said - I am MUCH less inclined to consider a marked up car from a flipper.

Range Rover already restricts territories on their SUV sales. So it’s happening now. We’ll see if there is a Rolex effect there.

I’m fine either way - I got my car at discount, so other dealers charging ADMs doesn’t affect me one way or the other. Personally, I think it will take at least 2-3 years for the market to get sane again.

Patton250

Yes apparently a whole bunch of people.