Originally Posted by Patton250

Um….. I don’t get to determine what’s reasonable. Neither do you. The market does. I do not understand for the life of me why is so difficult to figure this out. It has zero to do with what is reasonable. The only time reasonable comes in to play in capitalism is for commodity items that are plentiful. But still then competition is what controls and determines profit margin‘s on most products especially commodities so even then the word reasonable it’s not a term used in this market either.. However a Porsche is not a commodity.

Just because I have a couple extra minutes I’m going to attempt to explain this to you one last time. Please let me know if you even kind of grasp this concept after you’re done reading this post. I won’t charge you for this by the way. I’m going to pull you into this and use you personally in this example.

OK you and your wife own a house. You lived in it for 15 years having built it in 2007 and originally you paid $650,000 for it. It was brand-new. It’s time for you to retire and move on. Oh did I mention you live in Florida the hottest housing market in the country right now. You and your wife are discussing how much you should ask for your house. You’re trying to determine what is “reasonable”. You’d like to make some money so all on your own without a real estate agent you guys decide to ask for $800,000. You list your house that night at 9 PM. When you wake up the next morning you go to your listing and find you have 62 offers. These offers are now ranging anywhere from $700,000 to $1.4 million. You and your wife look up the person offering you $1.4 million and it’s 100% legitimate. So what do you do my friend? What is “reasonable” in this situation. I would love to hear your complete total honest answer on this. It will be interesting to see if you hold yourself and your wife to the same standard you wish to hold Porsche dealerships at.

By the way this scenario has happened all the time the last couple of years in Florida during Covid. Granted it’s slowing down now since the powers to be are hell bent at destroying the entire economy including the housing market but that doesn’t change the fact that the scenario I offered you above was a very common one in Florida for a while. I’m looking forward to your answer.

Originally Posted by Staffie Guy

Good analogy that could have been made with being so condescending in the second paragraph.

Originally Posted by dhirm5

Keep in mind that the dealers are the ones getting the ADM. The manufacturer gets none of that. That's where all these market based, supply-demand comparisons fail. Why should these brokers set the prices so much higher than the manufacturer and then keep that difference? That's not cool at all; you can argue that they are actually hurting Porsche by doing this.

It's like ticketmaster and that mafia buying up every ticket when a big name celebrity comes to your venue, then charging double face value. The artists see none of that.

I'd be fine with the additional expenditure if it went to the entity that deserved it. A broker? No.

Originally Posted by Patton250

Condescending= A statement or comment that Staffie Guy disagrees with

sorry you don’t believe they’re destroying the economy on purpose. It’s either that or they’re absolute freaking morons. How’s that for condescending? :-)


So that’s what you’re going with? Brokers did it? What percentage of total new Porsche sales do you think are run through a broker?

Originally Posted by dhirm5

A dealer is effectively a broker. I'm referring to dealers as brokers, which I prob shouldn't have done, since there are now a ton of auto brokers. Sorry for the confusion.

Originally Posted by Patton250

Let me ask you this brother. My 992 turbo S cost 250 K exactly. That’s before dealer fees and all of that. Let’s say I put it up for sale right now. Five guys reach out to me. One guy says he’ll give me 230 K another guy says he’ll give me 250 K and another guy tells me he’ll give me 300 K. Are you telling me I shouldn’t take the 300 K? I really wanna hear you say it. Is that what you would do?

Originally Posted by dhirm5

Now let me ask you this. Let's say you manufacture widgets. You sell them for 100.00/ea. Some guy comes and buys all your supply, then sells them for 200.00/ea. Wouldn't you rather be the one that got the extra cash?

Originally Posted by Patton250

That happens all the time. It’s called a supply chain. It’s not the manufacturers wheelhouse to sell retail. They could attempt it and it looks like they very well might be going to try that in the near future. Let’s see how it works out for them. So to answer your question more specifically I might try it depending on the risk I want to take. The manufacture is set up to manufacture and sell their products to either distributors or retailers. If they wanted to sell direct to the end-user then they would have to set up a different business model. Are you suggesting Porsche should set up a different business model? Maybe they will. If they do and someone is willing to give them 300K for a normally priced 250K Porsche are you telling me you don’t think they would take the extra 50K? Just because they are a manufacture?

Originally Posted by dhirm5

Lol. No. I'm saying they absolutely should take the higher number. If you make the widget, you should charge what you can get for your product. What I object to is the dick in the middle charging the extra 50k just because he can.

I look forward to the day that we're moving quickly towards; eliminate dealerships and people buy direct from the manufacturer. Tesla has shown us it can be done. The established autos can't do it without breaking contracts and in many cases, state laws need to change.

Originally Posted by Patton250

Yeah man we should eliminate all those jobs don’t you think? That way they’ll be no one to take care of you. You can just show up at the lot and hopefully see something and if you need help well just pound sand. Pick a car and give me your credit card.

Manufacturers have been trying to get rid of sales people since the wheel was invented. It doesn’t work. You’re never going to get rid of the middleman. Besides all that has absolutely zero to do with why we are having ADM‘s right now. We have ADMs because we’ve had an awesome economy and very low supply of parts. Now granted the powers to be have destroyed the economy but we still have a very low supply parts. Until those normalize you’re going to see hard to get items at premiums.

By the way Tesla still has sales agents.

Originally Posted by dhirm5

Yes, tesla has sales agents. they work for tesla.

I'm not sure what you're referring to with manufacturers trying to get rid of sales agents. Most other categories you don't have retailers marking products up indiscriminately. when you buy a sony tv on amazon, amazon gets a small cut, but the bulk goes to sony, as it should be.

I have no need for the sales people. Every car and most things I've ever bought I know more than the sellers about the product. You might be different.

"Besides all that has absolutely zero to do with why we are having ADM‘s right now" -- this is just incorrect. If there was no middleman, there would be no ADM. It's in the name, "Additional Dealer Markup". The dealer is the middleman.

Originally Posted by Patton250

Im going to email your high school principal and yell at him. Why can’t schools just for one freaking class for one freaking semester sit down and teach people the basics of capitalism?????? I tried and tried on this thread to really simplify this so people can understand but all to no avail. In a year or two when they powers to be have finally finished off the economy and the supply chain is caught up we will be getting these cars at probably 10 to 15% off. Not one of you people will bitch about that. Not one. Perhaps then I’ll return to that thread and try to explain to you guys why it is they are 10 to 15% off at that point. Maybe your ears will be open more at that time. Until then I surrender. I have failed.

Originally Posted by dhirm5

Lol dude you're missing the point. Again, that my issue is not with capitalism or supply/demand. My issue is with the middleman taking an unreasonable cut. If the extra cash went to Porsche, I'd have no issue with it.

Originally Posted by Patton250

This is my point. With all due respect you don’t understand capitalism