Just venting - ADM
06-30-2022, 03:59 PM
#121
Drifting
06-30-2022, 04:04 PM
#122
Drifting
Watches are easier to sell than cars. Yes, you’ll get the flippers but it’s not the same type of market and I seriously doubt it would be as pervasive an issue with cars. People still prefer to buy a new car from the dealer - they aren’t as particular about watches.
I bought my ceramic Daytona outside the dealer network. I ended up paying an effective $5k ADM for the watch, which killed me at the time, but in hindsight was a great deal. That said - I am MUCH less inclined to consider a marked up car from a flipper.
Range Rover already restricts territories on their SUV sales. So it’s happening now. We’ll see if there is a Rolex effect there.
I’m fine either way - I got my car at discount, so other dealers charging ADMs doesn’t affect me one way or the other. Personally, I think it will take at least 2-3 years for the market to get sane again.
I bought my ceramic Daytona outside the dealer network. I ended up paying an effective $5k ADM for the watch, which killed me at the time, but in hindsight was a great deal. That said - I am MUCH less inclined to consider a marked up car from a flipper.
Range Rover already restricts territories on their SUV sales. So it’s happening now. We’ll see if there is a Rolex effect there.
I’m fine either way - I got my car at discount, so other dealers charging ADMs doesn’t affect me one way or the other. Personally, I think it will take at least 2-3 years for the market to get sane again.
Interesting that you mentioned Range Rover. Back in 2014 I sold an X5 for above sticker and paid $4K ADM on a RRS. Because there was no Land Rover dealership in my county, I was able to purchase out of area (…which ultimately ended up being the dealership in the South Bay). It’s interesting how restrictive they are with regards to sales.
06-30-2022, 04:27 PM
#123
Agreed!
Interesting that you mentioned Range Rover. Back in 2014 I sold an X5 for above sticker and paid $4K ADM on a RRS. Because there was no Land Rover dealership in my county, I was able to purchase out of area (…which ultimately ended up being the dealership in the South Bay). It’s interesting how restrictive they are with regards to sales.
Interesting that you mentioned Range Rover. Back in 2014 I sold an X5 for above sticker and paid $4K ADM on a RRS. Because there was no Land Rover dealership in my county, I was able to purchase out of area (…which ultimately ended up being the dealership in the South Bay). It’s interesting how restrictive they are with regards to sales.
That's the story I got from 3 different dealers and there was no implied "pay us and we'll look the other way", but I'm sure there are dealers out there doing that.
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M3Inline6 (06-30-2022)
06-30-2022, 05:48 PM
#124
Three Wheelin'
And I have zero actual insight to this, but I have to suspect that many if not all the sales programs and incentives manufactures have been offering dealers have dried up in the past two years, effectively allowing the manufactured to keep more profit per car.
06-30-2022, 05:49 PM
#125
Three Wheelin'
And its not always about understanding capitalism. Sometimes it’s just refusal to accept how capitalism works. Remember this. It’s because of capitalism that we are all sitting here arguing about the prices of high-end luxury sports cars. They don’t have this problem in countries where capitalism is frowned upon.
06-30-2022, 05:52 PM
#126
Three Wheelin'
Even though I partially agree with that, I do think that as a Porsche, I would love my cars to go to people who enjoy them and appreciate them and drive them. Same as in watch world. Rolex has the same problem. People who are just flipping them are not customers Porsche wants in the long run.
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M3Inline6 (06-30-2022)
06-30-2022, 06:54 PM
#127
I spec'ed and put $5k down for an order for a 911 S Cab in May 2021. Assuming I would get it at MSRP and was told I was in line for allocation.
Then the market went nuts and the dealer told me I could buy an allocation for $25k.
I don't have a philosophical issue with ADM but it certainly felt like a bait and switch.
I walked away and got my deposit back.
Fast forward to May 2022 and I took European Delivery of my GTS Cab that I got from another dealer at MSRP.
Then the market went nuts and the dealer told me I could buy an allocation for $25k.
I don't have a philosophical issue with ADM but it certainly felt like a bait and switch.
I walked away and got my deposit back.
Fast forward to May 2022 and I took European Delivery of my GTS Cab that I got from another dealer at MSRP.
06-30-2022, 07:33 PM
#128
06-30-2022, 07:44 PM
#129
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
But there are dealerships (like AutoNation and Sonic Automotive) that are publicly traded companies.
Last edited by ipse dixit; 06-30-2022 at 07:46 PM.
06-30-2022, 07:57 PM
#130
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I think prices on most new Porsche cars are back to normal.
Porsche has recently had no chip issues and shipping is back to normal levels. It seems the new recession; and the other important inflations issues are affecting the market.
Porsche has recently had no chip issues and shipping is back to normal levels. It seems the new recession; and the other important inflations issues are affecting the market.
06-30-2022, 11:18 PM
#131
Advanced
My biggest frustration with ADM is that the number is arbitrary and all over the place. I moved from Florida to California two weeks ago. In Florida the ADM on the Taycan was 10K at two dealerships and no ADM when I showed up in person. In California the ADM from 3 different dealerships within a 30 mile radius was 10K and one dealership offered me 3K when I showed up. I will be waiting for market to cool down. I will never pay ADM out of principle.
06-30-2022, 11:41 PM
#132
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No ADM here but little availability.
I say wait as the current inflation, the falling stock market, the falling bond market (both never happened at the same time), and the falling growth rate will correct that ADM back to a discount.
It will be the new recession that will get prices in line. It's going to be worse than J. Powell says.
I say wait as the current inflation, the falling stock market, the falling bond market (both never happened at the same time), and the falling growth rate will correct that ADM back to a discount.
It will be the new recession that will get prices in line. It's going to be worse than J. Powell says.
07-01-2022, 02:52 AM
#133
Drifting
My biggest frustration with ADM is that the number is arbitrary and all over the place. I moved from Florida to California two weeks ago. In Florida the ADM on the Taycan was 10K at two dealerships and no ADM when I showed up in person. In California the ADM from 3 different dealerships within a 30 mile radius was 10K and one dealership offered me 3K when I showed up. I will be waiting for market to cool down. I will never pay ADM out of principle.
You moved from a free state to Commiefornia?!?! We’re all trying to leave here and go to Florida. Welcome though!
No ADM here but little availability.
I say wait as the current inflation, the falling stock market, the falling bond market (both never happened at the same time), and the falling growth rate will correct that ADM back to a discount.
It will be the new recession that will get prices in line. It's going to be worse than J. Powell says.
I say wait as the current inflation, the falling stock market, the falling bond market (both never happened at the same time), and the falling growth rate will correct that ADM back to a discount.
It will be the new recession that will get prices in line. It's going to be worse than J. Powell says.
Last edited by M3Inline6; 07-01-2022 at 03:56 PM.
07-01-2022, 06:44 AM
#134
Rennlist Member
My biggest frustration with ADM is that the number is arbitrary and all over the place. I moved from Florida to California two weeks ago. In Florida the ADM on the Taycan was 10K at two dealerships and no ADM when I showed up in person. In California the ADM from 3 different dealerships within a 30 mile radius was 10K and one dealership offered me 3K when I showed up. I will be waiting for market to cool down. I will never pay ADM out of principle.
Having said that just so you know I called probably 30 dealerships all throughout the entire country from Miami to Seattle and from Falmouth Maine to San Diego. I’m talking everywhere coast to coast and in between and the ADM was all over the place. Sometimes it was all over the place in the same state. Let me give you an example. My local dealership in Tampa only wanted you to buy a watch and all the warranties. The one in Orlando wanted $125,000 over sticker for a turbo S. Those dealerships are approximately 110 miles apart. So there you go.
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M3Inline6 (07-01-2022)
07-01-2022, 06:48 AM
#135
Rennlist Member
I totally agree with you except product availability i.e. Porsche cars are still incredibly slim. Well below normal and that’s keeping ADM’s in place. I just think they are lower ADMs then they were when the economy was hot on top of not having cars. Time will tell though. I hope these things do go away because I would like to build the perfect spec for me Porsche turbo S.