Lithium ion battery
05-10-2022, 04:20 PM
#46
Racer
05-10-2022, 04:55 PM
#47
So i finally took my car in for the battery error i was getting (said low battery voltage, sevice required) even though the battery was behaving fine.. and yes, lithium battery. Never drained, always started right up, showed 13.x volts. If it weren't for the warning, i wouldn't have taken it in.
Anyway, my SA today just told me they need to replace the battery as it's bad. Didn't get more specific. But she said the parts department is estimating a week for them to get one.
Color me shocked. And wont be counting any chickens yet. I'm in Northern Va, so i dont know if theres one close by or what. But considering my 2nd key fob that was supposed to get here weeks ago still hasnt, I'm not counting on it.
Anyway, my SA today just told me they need to replace the battery as it's bad. Didn't get more specific. But she said the parts department is estimating a week for them to get one.
Color me shocked. And wont be counting any chickens yet. I'm in Northern Va, so i dont know if theres one close by or what. But considering my 2nd key fob that was supposed to get here weeks ago still hasnt, I'm not counting on it.
05-11-2022, 12:54 AM
#48
I found out that Porsche is switching my car to an AGM to get it on the road. Dealer thought the RWS would work, but was unsure if it really would. I suspect the car is going to have issues with voltage if I crank the steering over near idle with other high draw circuits powered. BTW this takes a wiring harness change that had to be shipped from Germany. Doesn’t seem like Porsche inventories more than basic maintenance parts in the US these days.
Good luck to anyone hoping to get an Li Porsche battery any time soon.
Good luck to anyone hoping to get an Li Porsche battery any time soon.
05-11-2022, 02:45 AM
#49
RL Community Team
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You ain't kidding the car will have issues. This means MAJOR reprogramming for the RAS to work with AGM. As soon as the BMS detects RAS your cluster will light up like Xmas since they're incompatible. Tell you dealer to share the coding 
siberian
siberian
05-11-2022, 06:54 AM
#50
Instructor
Thread Starter
The greater issue is that you have to wake up the battery from its protection mode FIRST, then Charge it. The problem is that a CTEK Charger, is in most every circumstance, is NOT adequate to wake up a Lithium Battery out of its Protection Mode. The reason is because it does not have enough of a initial Pulse of Volts/Amp to specifically re-set the Battery Management System/Protection Mode. So with the CTEK or other Charger attached they won't supply a solid 12 to 13v hit with a solid 10 to 20 amp to awaken the battery.
But let me explain this a bit better. A Lithium Battery has a BMS (Battery Management System) and if the battery is discharged beyond a certain set point.... for example 11v (or whatever), then the battery goes into a SLEEP/PROTECTION Mode. So the BMS Circuit board knows to shut down the battery so it cannot discharge more energy and damage itself by going to a low voltage point. But, to awaken this BMS it requires a solid bump of Voltage and sufficient Amps to WAKE-UP the Battery's BMS Circuit Board. Please note, it is not a massive bump of energy that is needed, it is as simple as connecting another 12v battery (that is in a good state of charge) to it for a second, thats all in most cases. It simply wants to see a solid voltage so it knows that is can WAKE UP. The problem is these Battery Charger Manufacturers do not program in a solid and full 12+v pulse of energy that will awaken the BMS before they start charging the battery.
Lithium Chargers, as well as other modern chargers actually want to see Voltage at a Battery's Terminals before they start charging a battery, its a safety feature and also and anti-spark feature. So these CTEKS will not see voltage at the Lithium batteries terminals since the battery is in PROTECTION/SLEEP MODE so they will often not understand to do the Pulse of Voltage/Amperage to awaken the battery so they can start the charging process. So they actually sit attached to the battery doing nothing since they don't see active voltage coming from the Battery. But now they are offering a BMS RE-SET, but it still isn't sufficient as we have tested. If you do attach a solid 12v source to the battery for a second it should wake up, then you can charge it since it has now woken up.
Anyway the point to my ramble is to get the battery awake first so it can accept a charge. But note that for some batteries, if they do become massively over-discharged the BMS will do a complete lock-out of the battery so it cannot be recharged, this is a safety feature. I can't tell what Porsche programmed because we can't get a battery to test. But I did test the heck out of waking up our Lithium Batteries from a sleep mode using the pulse method also, so I am very familiar with this since we tested a few chargers and they did not work to reset or awaken the BMS.
But let me explain this a bit better. A Lithium Battery has a BMS (Battery Management System) and if the battery is discharged beyond a certain set point.... for example 11v (or whatever), then the battery goes into a SLEEP/PROTECTION Mode. So the BMS Circuit board knows to shut down the battery so it cannot discharge more energy and damage itself by going to a low voltage point. But, to awaken this BMS it requires a solid bump of Voltage and sufficient Amps to WAKE-UP the Battery's BMS Circuit Board. Please note, it is not a massive bump of energy that is needed, it is as simple as connecting another 12v battery (that is in a good state of charge) to it for a second, thats all in most cases. It simply wants to see a solid voltage so it knows that is can WAKE UP. The problem is these Battery Charger Manufacturers do not program in a solid and full 12+v pulse of energy that will awaken the BMS before they start charging the battery.
Lithium Chargers, as well as other modern chargers actually want to see Voltage at a Battery's Terminals before they start charging a battery, its a safety feature and also and anti-spark feature. So these CTEKS will not see voltage at the Lithium batteries terminals since the battery is in PROTECTION/SLEEP MODE so they will often not understand to do the Pulse of Voltage/Amperage to awaken the battery so they can start the charging process. So they actually sit attached to the battery doing nothing since they don't see active voltage coming from the Battery. But now they are offering a BMS RE-SET, but it still isn't sufficient as we have tested. If you do attach a solid 12v source to the battery for a second it should wake up, then you can charge it since it has now woken up.
Anyway the point to my ramble is to get the battery awake first so it can accept a charge. But note that for some batteries, if they do become massively over-discharged the BMS will do a complete lock-out of the battery so it cannot be recharged, this is a safety feature. I can't tell what Porsche programmed because we can't get a battery to test. But I did test the heck out of waking up our Lithium Batteries from a sleep mode using the pulse method also, so I am very familiar with this since we tested a few chargers and they did not work to reset or awaken the BMS.
I can send you my battery if you would like to test it and hopefully fix it 🤣🤣🤣
where are you located ? .
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Max141949 (11-17-2023)
05-11-2022, 11:08 AM
#51
Racer
This lithium battery situation seems to be getting really stupid now. Changing wiring harness? Really? Porsche should work this out with the after market, like Antigravity to get this situation solved…quickly. I’m sure they have engineers that no how to fix this. This seems it would be in everyone who’s involved best interest to do. I mean to have a car laid up for a bad battery just seems ridiculous to me. But then again maybe Porsche just does not care. I have RAS on my car and if this was my car sitting idle because of a battery I would be furious. I have my car on a charger whenever I’m home now…always, even just overnight. I hard wired a pig tail to the battery as per the instructions and pics by someone on this forum and run it up through the cowl.
05-11-2022, 11:39 AM
#52
Here’s a question - It was my understanding that Porsche has been using Li battery equipped RAS on a number of it’s models, including the GT3 for a number of years. Not to mention that many countries, including Canada come standard with the Li battery…so, was there always a problem, or is this problem unique to the 992, and only/mainly on US cars? One would think that if this battery has been around a while, on quite a few cars..,.there would be a recall by now?
Inquiring minds want ton know?
Inquiring minds want ton know?
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 05-11-2022 at 11:41 AM.
05-11-2022, 11:44 AM
#53
RL Community Team
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kgb_kgb (05-14-2022)
05-11-2022, 06:03 PM
#54
Racer
Things just got more interesting. Talked to my SA today - they got word via email from Porsche that the factory in Germany that makes the batteries had a fire and now there is no estimate for when replacement batteries can come to North America. I went and got my car since it can drive - they said it was the sensor thats on the battery but the battery itself seems fine. I tried to get any other info from them about the situation with supply, but all they knew was what was in the email.
They're going to try and find a spare somewhere in the US but likely it will be months before one can come. I asked them if that was the only factory (yes as far as they knew) and what does that mean for new cars? are they not making any with lifepo4 batterries? They couldn't say.
Man, this is ridiculous that people would not be able to drive their cars for months on end because of a stupid battery. A Macan loaner is not what we paid for. I'm just thankful that for now, i can still enjoy mine.
They're going to try and find a spare somewhere in the US but likely it will be months before one can come. I asked them if that was the only factory (yes as far as they knew) and what does that mean for new cars? are they not making any with lifepo4 batterries? They couldn't say.
Man, this is ridiculous that people would not be able to drive their cars for months on end because of a stupid battery. A Macan loaner is not what we paid for. I'm just thankful that for now, i can still enjoy mine.
05-11-2022, 06:39 PM
#55
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
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Totally agree and a Macan loaner for a 992 (vs a Taycan say) is an insult.
Things are going to get much worse in this rush to EVs along the same vein as the x3 ESP Mobil1 oil disinformation for 992s and GPF cars (which at the time none were in the US) and which was only to be had through dealers.
Customer loyalty is a fickle issue, continuing to p*ss customers off with one stupidity after another in the pursuit of more and more indirect cash flows and eventually folks will walk. I put up with 30 years of MOPAR so called engineering going back to my '68 383 Roadrunner and 71 Cuda. But after my 99 Durango heavily modded I got tired of spending every weekend under the car as it really was a piece of trash with no QC. I enjoyed modding it but after that I closed the door and moved on.
This battery snafu is inexcusable as GT3s if memory serves me right from a few years ago had RAS with AGM batteries.
siberian
Things are going to get much worse in this rush to EVs along the same vein as the x3 ESP Mobil1 oil disinformation for 992s and GPF cars (which at the time none were in the US) and which was only to be had through dealers.
Customer loyalty is a fickle issue, continuing to p*ss customers off with one stupidity after another in the pursuit of more and more indirect cash flows and eventually folks will walk. I put up with 30 years of MOPAR so called engineering going back to my '68 383 Roadrunner and 71 Cuda. But after my 99 Durango heavily modded I got tired of spending every weekend under the car as it really was a piece of trash with no QC. I enjoyed modding it but after that I closed the door and moved on.
This battery snafu is inexcusable as GT3s if memory serves me right from a few years ago had RAS with AGM batteries.
siberian
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Zeek1 (04-19-2024)
05-11-2022, 06:45 PM
#56
Things just got more interesting. Talked to my SA today - they got word via email from Porsche that the factory in Germany that makes the batteries had a fire and now there is no estimate for when replacement batteries can come to North America. I went and got my car since it can drive - they said it was the sensor thats on the battery but the battery itself seems fine. I tried to get any other info from them about the situation with supply, but all they knew was what was in the email.
They're going to try and find a spare somewhere in the US but likely it will be months before one can come. I asked them if that was the only factory (yes as far as they knew) and what does that mean for new cars? are they not making any with lifepo4 batterries? They couldn't say.
Man, this is ridiculous that people would not be able to drive their cars for months on end because of a stupid battery. A Macan loaner is not what we paid for. I'm just thankful that for now, i can still enjoy mine.
They're going to try and find a spare somewhere in the US but likely it will be months before one can come. I asked them if that was the only factory (yes as far as they knew) and what does that mean for new cars? are they not making any with lifepo4 batterries? They couldn't say.
Man, this is ridiculous that people would not be able to drive their cars for months on end because of a stupid battery. A Macan loaner is not what we paid for. I'm just thankful that for now, i can still enjoy mine.
It’s even worse…but maybe there’s some hope (TBD)?
”It’s not a pretty situation at all. If we order a LiPo battery today, the ETA we are given is mid ‘24. The LiPo for the Cayenne is approved for use in the 911 in other markets, but not US or Brazil. We have asked for authorization to use it if necessary, but as of now we’ve been told not to.
Porsche of NA needs to get their act together, if they want repeat buyers? Future buyers…be careful.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 05-11-2022 at 06:49 PM.
05-11-2022, 06:47 PM
#57
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
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Last edited by siberian; 05-11-2022 at 06:49 PM.
05-11-2022, 06:48 PM
#58
Racer
It’s even worse…but maybe there’s some hope (TBD)?
”It’s not a pretty situation at all. If we order a LiPo battery today, the ETA we are given is mid ‘24. The LiPo for the Cayenne is approved for use in the 911 in other markets, but not US or Brazil. We have asked for authorization to use it if necessary, but as of now we’ve been told not to.
”It’s not a pretty situation at all. If we order a LiPo battery today, the ETA we are given is mid ‘24. The LiPo for the Cayenne is approved for use in the 911 in other markets, but not US or Brazil. We have asked for authorization to use it if necessary, but as of now we’ve been told not to.
who told you that? Mid '24?!?!?!
05-11-2022, 06:51 PM
#59
I promised not to divulge..but I assure you, on my wife’s life 😎 😱 that the source of this information is legit. If he allows me to release his name and position, I will pass it on.
I only bring it to people’s attention as I think that owners, and future owners should know the situation. At present, I am not impacted, but the situation concerning the LACK OF availability of Porsche’s LiPo battery is very concerning to me.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 05-11-2022 at 07:55 PM.
05-11-2022, 06:57 PM
#60
Racer
I promised not to divulge..but I assure you, on my wife’s life 😎 😱 that the source of this information is legit, and from a Porsche employee that is in a position to know the facts. If he allows me to release his name and position, I will pass it on.
I only bring it to people’s attention as I think that owners, and future owners should know the situation. At present, I am not impacted, but the situation concerning the LACK OF availability of Porsche’s LiPo battery is very concerning to me.
I only bring it to people’s attention as I think that owners, and future owners should know the situation. At present, I am not impacted, but the situation concerning the LACK OF availability of Porsche’s LiPo battery is very concerning to me.
if i'd known about this when ordering, i probably would have opted to leave the RAS off. I do like it, but man, that's not worth it if this battery really does die on me.
Last edited by achilleas101; 05-11-2022 at 06:59 PM.
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Guzzgreg (05-11-2022)