tez2013

20.1 - 20.3 range

SBAD

So this is a little disconcerting. This particular tune appears to still be a beta. Your car is essentially stock, correct? There should not need to be 4 revisions to get it right if the tune is fully developed. Perhaps I am missing something.

M Engineering

Its not at all in beta. This ROM id we have done 50 of and don't have this issue. For whatever reason his car is not responding the same as all the others that had no issues.

Things can change and there can be edge cases in the code where he is hitting some variable that is not touched in other cars. It can be environmental, fuel quality, a coding change or even mechanical. What I like to think we pride ourselves in is that we don't just leave it, we log it and work to find whatever is causing it. We will figure out what it is, but honestly this could happen with anyone. The GTS is a good example as there is extra code and tables in it that need to be changed as it has been altered since the other Carreras.

Cheers,

Mitch Mckee
M-Engineering

SBAD

I appreciate your response and it’s timeliness. All makes sense. When a tune is ordered, I’m sure you note the model and year. Do you warn the customer there may be adjustments needed if it’s a combination of year and model that has not been modified by you before?

I ask because it seems many tunes are install and forget about it. Your experiences imply that a fair number of (other vendor) tuned 911s are running around with suboptimal adjustments.

PTS-BRG

As an M engineering customer and having tuned Porsches before by other tuners, these guys are up front and honest. If the tune has issues they ask for data logs and figure it out. Im sure if they couldn't figure it out they would give you a full refund, but they are the best at what they do and they always figure it out. I dont know the OP with issues, but I promise you they will get it sorted and I hope the OP comes back to praise them when they do...

M Engineering

Yes we ask that you do a read info. It gives us a vin, coding values, and the ROM id of the software. We then take this and make a file. It is an OTS style map that we have developed, and we don't start with different changes for the same ROM id per car. Yes we do warn customers and have a procedure we ask them to go through if its a new ROM we have not seen.

As for other vendors it's hard to say, but without being able to datalog a lot of people simply don't know. The other nice thing is that break the code down so we can make targeted logging profiles if we are trying to isolate a control function in code to see what the ram variables are actually doing. So this is something that no one else that I know of can do.

We work with customer's to make sure that they are happy with the car and the experience. We are not the cheapest solution out there for a reason. I hope that all makes sense.

Cheers!

Mitch Mckee

SBAD

Mitch,

I have already made my decision that I will go with you guys. It’s just a matter of when I pull the trigger. I’ve had my C2S a little under a year and I want to continue learning its current power before I make the jump - it’s something to look forward to!

AlterZgo

As a person who has tuned every single turbocharged car I've owned and many non-turbo cars, the reality is, what M Engineering is offering goes so far beyond what other tuners offer in terms of off the shelf "canned" tunes. All tuners, including M Engineering provides a standard tune that is an "install and forget about it" type of tune. To hit this standard and make it as widely applicable as possible under the many different conditions customers across the world will encounter, the "standard" tunes are typically conservative. I suppose some would consider this a "sub-optimal" tune. But the reality is off the shelf cannot accomodate all potential situations. For example, I am in AZ where the weather is 100-120+ degrees 4 mos out of the year. I'm sure my tune probably needs to be a bit more conservative than in cooler areas.

M Engineering then offers all customers the ability to send in logs to refine that standard tune to the specifics of your car and local conditions (weather, altitude, etc.). They also include their maps to all the other stages including E85 for free and basically unlimited ability to refine your tune or as you add mods to the car later on. Some tuners offer different stages and E85 tunes as well and also will do custom revisions when you add mods. However, they almost all charge more for these additional services.

While M Engineering's tune isn't the cheapest, for the quality of the tune, Mitch's experience, their willingness to continually work with you to refine your tune and their customer service, speaking for myself, it was well worth the price. Of course, if you are looking for a cheaper set it and forget it tune, there are others out there who provide that as well and I'm sure they are also good tunes if you use experienced companies with a good track record of tuning turbocharged Porsches.

Tupper

They’ve been working with me for months to revise my tune and address anything that comes up.

My only advice for anybody who tunes through them is that it can be an active process. Meaning, if you want to flash and forget it, it IS possible but you wind up getting more out of this experience through data logging and adjusting. If you are willing to take your car out, have it plugged in to a laptop, and drive your *** off then you could potentially get more out of this experience.

If you aren’t, then you have to take this into consideration. Data logging has actually thought me things that I never really knew before.

CodyBigdog

Exactly.

Might explain why few (if any) that have tuned their cars have reported any time improvements?

I think I’ll wait.

Too bad Dinan doesn’t have a tune for the 992. I have a Dinan tune on my M4, and its rock solid.

M Engineering

Endless pages of testimonials regarding M-Tuner. We encourage anyone with a Dragy to post up numbers and their experiences.
Lots of great feedback on the feel of their cars and plenty of dyno data out there. This is not a new or beta product in any regard. We pride ourselves on the superior flashing product, calibrations, and experience for the 992 platform that NOBODY else can offer.

-Charles@M

vic55

My history with M Engineering- two Fridays ago:

• Dongle arrives on a Thursday and I do the initial readings (downloaded the app to my laptop- wont work on a cell)
• M Engineering read the initial data and created a zero file to make sure the ECU could be unlocked (Friday)
• I uploaded the tune in 7 minutes via the app and then advised that the ecu unlock worked (Friday)
• M Engineering sent V101 (Friday) and asked for data logs- this is a basic tune to get logs (Friday)
• I data logged V101 and sent back (takes 10 min to log 3 third gear pulls to redline) (Friday)
• M Engineering recognized timing being pulled due to lower 91 octane quality and sent back V102 (Friday)
• I uploaded V102 and noticed a marked improvement but they still wanted to data logs to perfect my exact car (Saturday)
• I data logged V102 on Monday and sent back to them (Monday)
• M Engineering sent V103 with more adjustments to hold boost and keep throttle closures from occurring (Monday)
• I uploaded V103 and sent it in and got back V104 (Monday)
• V104 is where Im at now from a ECU tune perspective and the car is tremendous and linear. Its not Turbo S like that just crushes you back but more a balanced gain thru the rpm ranges to redline which matches their dyno charts in general. Its a great balance for the street.

So in reality its not a shelf tune but its a catered tune to my exact car and what the data shows from logging. I have had other revisions for these items only:

Removed Auto Stop Start (***)
Removed standstill rev limiter
Removed Valve closure (always open) unless I press the light off on the exhaust button (my favorite add on item as this car sounds so good under 5k rpms with this adjustment and my exhaust mods)
Removed and CEL due to cat efficiency errors (I have the soul 200s which can still hit a cel)

But here is where the rubber meets the road- its with the service of the individuals there. Scott and Charles are amazing replying to every single email and phone call/message I send. They immediately review logs and revise tunes to create more SAFE power via true data logging vs some shelf tune that will be either inefficient or unsafe.

What is worth it to you is what you need to ask. I still do all of this with a "pay to play:" mentality but this type of service and process makes me sleep well at night and enjoy the added power further. I still need to get a draggy to create empiricals but Ive been tuning cars for over 20 years and I know my *** dyno very well

CodyBigdog

Everybody knows that Dyno results can significantly vary: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...lying-feature/

“More important, did your car run on the dyno as it would on the street? If it's the latest model, chances are good it may not have, says BMW tuning wizard Steve Dinan. An afternoon spent at his Bavarian speed emporium in Morgan Hill, California, convinced us that cars are gradually becoming too computerized for the simple dyno test.Dinan's cars are wired with a battery of sensors that report when the airflow over the bumper is too little, when the inlet air is too hot, and when the water temperatures in the block and radiator are too close together (most turbocharged and supercharged cars also "know" when their intercoolers aren't cooling enough). The computer reacts by backing off the spark and turning up the richness—and as a result, turning down the power—to prevent catastrophic engine meltdowns.

To prove his point, Dinan bolts to his Dynopack one of his 2003 Dinan M5s, heavily tweaked to make a claimed 470 horsepower at the crank (he expects about 415 at the wheels). With the hood closed and no external fan blowing air into the radiator, the car wheezes out just 334 horsepower at the wheels. An LCD data logger on the dashboard reveals the air-fuel ratio from the engine computer. Approaching redline, the BMW's computer richens the mixture all the way to 9.5:1 as the underhood temperatures soar.”

As I have about 5 years on my M4 with a Dinan tune, I would trust them with my $160K, Porsche…too bad they don’t have one. 😱

And yes, I’ve read numerous testimonials on here that say, “after the tune, my cars pulls harder….with increased boost pressure”. All cool, and all nice to hear. But CERTIFIED drag times (Darggy or at the track) are quantifiable numbers of how a tune has, or has not changed the performance of their car(s) on the street (with existing setup, ie, tires, 2W/4W, etc).

There is a time/speed metric suitable for everyone: 0-60, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 mile, with their associated trap speeds, 30-80mph, 70-130 times, etc, etc. Translating these improvements to the track, is not as straight forward as interpreting time improvements for a straight line run on the street.

While external variabilities exist that can give slightly different results, from car/driver …after a few CERTIFIED times are posted, accurate and consistent averages for the different metrics will be established.

ipse dixit

Charles,

What kind of warranty does M Engineering provide?

Is it in addition to the Porsche OEM warranty or in place of it?

Thank you.

Tupper

There are millions of BMWs out there, more cars, more people to report dragy times.

You’ve made your point about this issue numerous times, but I don’t think opining about it over and over is really going to make a difference.

And I for one am a tad weary of Dinan. In the BMW forums I know a bunch of people who, after months of delays, got poorly fabricated exhausts from them.

Just saying….