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I am not saying that tunes at this level will not be reliable. At the same time if turbo rpm is being pushed higher to make the elevated boost, then more fatigue is going into the rotating elements. You cannot see fatigue building up. It will simply manifest itself as an abrupt failure IF it occurs. I suspect the rest of the engine is very stout for US road usage since it must hold up on the autobahn when run very hard. Low restriction induction and exhaust systems are one way to limit turbo rpm needed for a given power target.
This is somewhat true... but for most people, the tiny amt of time they are accessing the increased boost pressures is negligible. These cars are so remarkably fast even stock that you are talking about short bursts of 3-5 seconds then you are at go to jail speeds. I would say in my 992 and tuned M3, I spend maybe 0.01% of the time at full throttle/full boost. Most of the time, the car is just cruising at a leisurely speed or, even if I'm driving briskly, it's not really near full boost most of the time.
Since most of us are not doing top speed runs where we are running turbos at full boost for minutes at a time, the wear on the turbos from increased boost pressure will not pose any issue at all for most of us. As you point out, these cars are designed for extended autobahn runs. Not saying they are designed for extended high speed runs w/ aftermarket tunes, but the margin for protection for these engines and turbos are likely broader than for other performance cars that are not designed to be run hard on the autobahn.
Of course, if you drive your car on the track extensively or drive like an idiot for prolonged periods (something I did routinely when I was young), then yeah, the turbos can melt down.
Forgot to also mention that poor tuning is really the main cause for engine and turbo failures. Poor tuning results in unoptimized timing and air-fuel ratios which will require the tuner to run the turbos at higher boost pressures than necessar to achieve a certain amt of power, which decreases longevity of the turbos. Also tuners who tune their cars at the ragged edge may make marginally more power at much increased risk of engine failure b/c their tunes may be too lean from an air/fuel ratio perspective. M-Engineering is a very reputable tuner w/ a track record of designing very solid and reliable tunes across different platforms. Any engine tuning that increases power would, by definition, shorten the longevity of parts on the car, but not significantly so and not enough to really be something to worry about IMO when using a very hgih quality tune.
Not a direct comparison, but tuned F80 M3/M4’s handle stage1 (no other mods) ~100hp tunes without any issue… including my two 2015 M4’s… among other brands, so I don’t see this being an issue on a Porsche.
So for a 5 second blast at max power the turbos will only spin 4K revs/second without over speed x 5 seconds or 20,000 potential over rev fatigue cycles. We all place bets on things everyday but limited time is not going to save you in case of turbo over speed. I have seen them let go at 2 or 3 seconds into it. Best approach is to limit the need for over speed as I suggested
This is somewhat true... but for most people, the tiny amt of time they are accessing the increased boost pressures is negligible. These cars are so remarkably fast even stock that you are talking about short bursts of 3-5 seconds then you are at go to jail speeds. I would say in my 992 and tuned M3, I spend maybe 0.01% of the time at full throttle/full boost. Most of the time, the car is just cruising at a leisurely speed or, even if I'm driving briskly, it's not really near full boost most of the time.
Since most of us are not doing top speed runs where we are running turbos at full boost for minutes at a time, the wear on the turbos from increased boost pressure will not pose any issue at all for most of us. As you point out, these cars are designed for extended autobahn runs. Not saying they are designed for extended high speed runs w/ aftermarket tunes, but the margin for protection for these engines and turbos are likely broader than for other performance cars that are not designed to be run hard on the autobahn.
Of course, if you drive your car on the track extensively or drive like an idiot for prolonged periods (something I did routinely when I was young), then yeah, the turbos can melt down.
I appreciate what you are saying, but essentially you are talking about using full power very sparingly. My driving is probably similar to what you describe, but then it makes me wonder why bother with the tune in the first place, other than the psychological boost of knowing my car now has bigger *****, is it worth the hassle and engine failure risk??? Anyway, that is what goes through my head.
Carlo, thanks for all the good info. Any thoughts on how a piggyback tune like this is detectable/affects warranty if it is removed. Obviously they have a plug for removing it but that wouldn’t be the same as a full uninstall which also wouldn’t be that hard. Bummer the two vids were on C4 and not an S but all in all I am quite intrigued. If anyone moves on this please let us know. I’m likely not going to do it for a month or two at the earliest. I do like that they boast a warm up feature.
Haven't given this any prior thought, but it did perk my interests gota be someone in here with this installed willing to share experiences of it in motion. I am also not looking for 600 hp but a small bump in that 50 range is enticing. any 991.2 or earlier folks in there have one and any dealer/warranty issues?
So for a 5 second blast at max power the turbos will only spin 4K revs/second without over speed x 5 seconds or 20,000 potential over rev fatigue cycles. We all place bets on things everyday but limited time is not going to save you in case of turbo over speed. I have seen them let go at 2 or 3 seconds into it. Best approach is to limit the need for over speed as I suggested
Good tuners know the limits of the stock equipment and will only tune the car such that it won’t blow up the turbos or the engine even with prolonged high speed driving. Some of these tuners are used by race teams to tune their race cars and those race cars can last season after season w/ a tune on it. I know GIAC does this.
There is risk in doing any mods and if anybody has even the slightest concern about their warranty being voided or blowing up their turbos or engine, they should definitely not tune the car. Frankly, for how fast a stock Carrera S is - even my “slow” manual version, tuning seems pointless. As is, I have to shift at 6K rpm in 1st gear or I will blow past redline super fast. I can’t even imagine what I would do with another 100 hp, particularly as I never track my car.
I’ve been following the APR thread in the 991.2 section and at a simple Stage 1 tune it appears to be pretty safe and reliable and that’s been out for a while now.
08-30-2021, 07:06 PM
