Originally Posted by Diablo Dude

Sounds good. No worries.
I figured that the tropical storm may have had something to do with it.
Stay safe!

Originally Posted by Justaroofer

No. People get in line to feel special for something they wont get. I was offered a Dakar. I said yes because it the perfect redneck porsche. Had I also been offered an ST.... no. It's just not special. Actual car people (also the minority) see through the BS bag of parts the ST is.

The window lickers and pedigree flyers want the ST to fill a void of relevance to chase the exclusive and unobtanium.

It's just sad to see Porsche have to head this dramatic direction with the 992.

Originally Posted by Whoopsy

Here is my take for a proper S/T that I don't mind spending 400k for one.

Start with the 992 Cup car. Delete the wing. Swapped in the RS engine. Swapped out the race transmission for the excellent PDK, but keep the carbon shift peddles. Delete the passenger door and just sheet metal or a carbon panel over it. No gas struts for the hood, just a carbon prop rod a la Weissach 918s. Lexan windows all around (Maybe not that extreme because of law, but fixed windows without the opening mechanisms to save weight. Just a sliding slot on the driver side for parking meters) . Keep most of the race car's switch gear. Put in a 7" or something screen for the mandatory back up camera. Choice of seat, 918 bucket or Recaro bucket, just a single seat for the driver. leave interior completed bare metal. Take out the plastic dash cover. Standard PCCB. Only 1 colour offered, primer, without actual paint. Plastic wrap optional. I guess street tuned suspension too, as the race tuned one will be too stiff.

Limit it to 500 cars. Don't think anyone that say they 'want' a 'lightweight' spec is willing to go to this extreme.

Now that's a proper lightweight driver's car.

Heck I wouldn't mind dropping even 500k for one.

Hey Porsche, you reading this?

Originally Posted by usctrojanGT3

Now that is a raw, lightweight car that I would consider opening my wallet for even with a 6 figure ADM. I get a kick out of how the fanboys are giving you grief for not taking your VIP ST allocation and not praising the car like they are.

Originally Posted by ipse dixit

Yes, they are.

And they are saying it won't pass US DOT or NHTSA regs.

Originally Posted by sechsgang

Yeah, that would A never happen and B, that car sounds like an utter mess for a road, either make a cool restomod with all of the racy bits you want or just stick to a cup on the track 😂.

Originally Posted by Whoopsy

If a street car that's based on a Cup car materialized, it means the roll cage won't be there for sure, that's the biggest hinderance for 'conversion' to road car.

The bare metal bits are easy, just some thin lightweight padding and voila.

If some here are so concerned about the few pounds extra from a lift system, they would surely be happy this car won't have a 50lb passenger seat and the 200lb passenger onboard.

Current Cup car is ~2800lbs. Take off the roll cage and 100lbs gone. Say added back 50lbs or so padding and we still gonna be at 2750lbs.

520hp on a 2750lbs car, that's heaven for serious drivers.

Originally Posted by hf1

Porsche should just buy Singer and maybe learn a thing or two about adding lightness while satisfying safety regulations.

Originally Posted by GrantG

The Singer only has to comply with safety, emissions, and consumption standards from 1989…

Originally Posted by hf1

I knew there was a catch. Small price to pay for the enormous safety, emissions, and consumption restrictions we’re all enjoying today. 🤡

Originally Posted by Whoopsy

Material science have advanced many fold over the years. Powerful computer can do wonders on analyzing stress points and make parts that are stronger while lighter.

Originally Posted by Wilder

Seems simple but it's not. Just look at the LWG issues. Doubt they rushed to launch it and still, they now have to replace them constantly under warranty. My windshield spontaneously cracked on the third day in my possession. Also, the ST's body is already about 75% CF. perhaps they can go more extreme, but there would be compromises and there are so many restrictions they need to meet, I can't see how a road legal sports car with the reliability and durability of the brand can get significantly lower than 3k lbs.

Originally Posted by Whoopsy

it's the 'will' of the manufacturer, matching up with the 'claims' of the 'purists'.

Like what I had proposed, starting off with a real bare bone Cup car, which, is basically a 992 body in white. Cup car is ~2800lbs. But with metal panels. like I said, it's not hard at all for Porsche to produce some padding of the bare metal body parts to pass DOT regulations, especially if they delete the 100+lbs roll cage. A Cup car, after all, is built on the road car platform. So reliability isn't even an issue. And 'durability'? That's a joke. A racer car driver puts on much more abuse to the car than even the most hardcore road driver.

Race car suspension will be different than road car, but the mounting are basically the same and they only need to switch to softer springs and shocks. Fine tuning might take a little bit long as the 'road car' version will be much much lighter than anything they have produced but that's not a great challenge.

But how many of these so called 'purists' are willing to have a bare interior, little to none. They only talk the talk but they can't walk the walk. Like for real, not ordering a 6lb front axle lift to 'save weight'? Oh Please! Remove the 50lb passenger seat and don't take a 200lb passenger and that's 250lbs right there.

ST's body panels perhaps are 'light', but those are really cosmetics. Saving a few lbs on the hood then another few on the fenders and a few more on the roof. Cool, big deal.

It's at least 10lbs of carpet and insulation already behind the front seats, and 50lbs for the passenger seat, and more with all the trims, a lb here, a lb there, couple lbs here and couple lbs there and soon there is another 100lbs.

Are the self proclaimed 'purist' gonna buy such a car? Oh definitely NOT! They still want their creature comfort while claiming they want their 'lightweight' car. They are hypocrites. There, I said it.

It there such a thing running around in Porsche's property? Definitely yes. Why aren't they released? Same argument, the hypocrites won't buy them. Which means the business case isn't there.

Porsche the company is as much a purist as a realist.

Is it a tough job to build such a car and pass DOT? Easier than one think. With only 1 seat, they don't need to put in the passenger airbag, that's another 10lbs saved right there. Padding the interior panels to satisfy US no seatbelt law? Can't be easier. If BMW can wrap their roll cage in the M4 CSL with pipe insulation and pass the 'test', how hard it is for Porsche to do such a thing? Not even a challenge.

You want to take about the glass? Haha. When I bought my 918, it was with the Weissach package. it came with those lightweight glass. I broke 2 of those behind the seat, with just the GoPro suction mount. Both replaced under warranty. The 2nd time around, I was asked if I will still be mounting GoPros, I said yes and they gave me the 'normal' glass panel. Which lasted until now still. Weight difference is like a couple oz, big deal. That's less than my weight difference between toilet breaks.

Porsche AG knows how I do stuff. They read my big thread in the 918 section here. I posted good stuff and bad stuff. Doesn't matter what it is, I just say it as it happens. Do they feel annoyed at times? Most definitely. But they can't do much as I am not under Porsche's payroll like, say AP. I am the one that's paying them actually. Millions. I might get the odd phone call every now and then about hey Nick maybe tone it down? I was like cool, am I going to go on the Porsche payroll now? Nein was the answer. And nein is the answer they get back from me.

They do put up with me, hence why I am still on the invite list for VIP events. I mean I still have to pay but then again they do events second to none. The only other that sort of matches would be AMG as AMG hired Porsche's previous PR firm to do events. The only manufacturer that 'ban' me was Ferrari. Well that's another story for FerrariChat. Weird how voting with one's wallet works for some but not all.

I just bought another AMG, the SL63, after more than a decade, haven't even taking possession yet, but I already was notified about up coming events. Weird how things goes.

Originally Posted by hf1

How is it possible for Alpine to build an affordable (non-CF-body) 2400 lb (1092 kg as measured during a comparo) street legal sports car with all modern comforts and safety standards while the best both Porsche and Lotus (Emira) can do is at least 700 lb (350 kg) heavier? A manual shifter Alpine would be even lighter, approaching 2300 lb (?!).

Where/when did Porsche and Lotus veer off the road to lightness? When did RS stop meaning 'lighter'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo_Ztc20DCo

Originally Posted by Bowball

probably the same way Subaru had lightweight wrx’s. Take the quality out. That was a very tinny car compared to my Porsche Carrera of the same vintage. Close the door and you’d hear and feel it. Take out sound proofing. Etc etc.

Originally Posted by hf1

How is it possible for Alpine to build an affordable (non-CF-body) 2400 lb (1092 kg as measured during a comparo) street legal sports car with all modern comforts and safety standards while the best both Porsche and Lotus (Emira) can do is at least 700 lb (350 kg) heavier? A manual shifter Alpine would be even lighter, approaching 2300 lb (?!).

Where/when did Porsche and Lotus veer off the road to lightness? When did RS stop meaning 'lighter'?

Originally Posted by Wilder

Life is full of compromises. The Alpine has a very specific use. I would not want to daily it, it wouldn't keep up on track, and I wouldn't want to take it on a road trip. It's nowhere near the performance, quality, or versatility of a 911. The things that make the 911 what it is today add weight.

Originally Posted by hf1

This was a response to the arguments here that it was IMPOSSIBLE for Porsche to build a 2700lb car (and charge $500k for it!) due to safety regulations. And yet, modern cars with modern amenities, safety standards, and comforts are still being built that are 300lb LIGHTER and $400k cheaper than that. No one suggested that Porsche should be compared to Alpine, but one should expect Porsche to be able to do what Alpine has done, do it much better, and charge much more for it.

700lb is a lot of excuses.

Originally Posted by Bowball

so misunderstood. An original s/t. What makes it an s/t? They started with the trim level of the T and added the S engine PLUS they had a thin metal body shell, light weight glass. Original ones were Narrowbody and the they went with rear wheel flares. could spec what transmission gear and rear end you wanted but true on all 911’s then. LSD.

Everyone here would have called it a parts bin car too?

this s/t also has carbon fiber body parts. Bucket seats like available on the original

so I see it quite similar as to what could be done then.

a factory werks car so it was stripped interior but a privateer could have done that too.

almost all were bought to race. Except for some early narrow body ones which were for the road. And many recreated the s/t even in period. But they could not recreate the lightweight thin metal shell.

Originally Posted by 4 Point 0

I have had enough manuals in my life. City Traffic is too frustrating now. I would have liked a PDK S/T.

Allocation is tricky. But the more i looked into it, the less interesting it became.

The rear end is pretty much identical to a touring.
So all you get externally, are front guards and mag wheels.
I could care less about a badge.

So perhaps i could order a touring, with S/T front guards and an RS motor? There is my perfect Porsche right there.

An understated RS.

An S/T is $700K AUD here. So probably still save $50-$100k doing the touring.

Is the RS motor a lot different to GT3?

Originally Posted by hf1

This was a response to the arguments here that it was IMPOSSIBLE for Porsche to build a 2700lb car (and charge $500k for it!) due to safety regulations. And yet, modern cars with modern amenities, safety standards, and comforts are still being built that are 300lb LIGHTER and $400k cheaper than that. No one suggested that Porsche should be compared to Alpine, but one should expect Porsche to be able to do what Alpine has done, do it much better, and charge much more for it.

700lb is a lot of excuses.

Originally Posted by cosmos

This is the 992 R, take it for what you want, good, bad, indifferent. History will show that this will be viewed as the 992 R, it’s a numbered car.

You can compare it all you want, doesn’t matter, only 1963 people will care, for the rest of you it’s all academic.

Originally Posted by hf1

This was a response to the arguments here that it was IMPOSSIBLE for Porsche to build a 2700lb car (and charge $500k for it!) due to safety regulations. And yet, modern cars with modern amenities, safety standards, and comforts are still being built that are 300lb LIGHTER and $400k cheaper than that. No one suggested that Porsche should be compared to Alpine, but one should expect Porsche to be able to do what Alpine has done, do it much better, and charge much more for it.

700lb is a lot of excuses.