ipse dixit

Belief creates the actual fact.

- William James

mooty

right on brother
my sister and I took the recalled CGT out for 200 miles yesterday
she still believes, since she was 3 YO... that I am a Panda in disguise..... (thus I = BearAngel)

Wilder

1. Show me a manufacturer or Porsche model that has enjoyed price increases on par with the 911. No, price increases of the 911 are not mostly inflation.

2. Nobody is talking about SUVs here. Only 911s. As far as 911s are concerned, secondary market prices of CS, GT3RS, Dakar and even GT3s of the 992 variant as well as 991 and 997 beg to differ with you. This is mostly why Porsche is increasing prices. They've been conservative about it until recently but now they are testing to see where the inelasticity of demand for 911 ends. The ST confirms this trajectory.

3. How many cars one owns is not proportional to one's level of understanding of either Porsche pricing or economics in general. Someone with zero Porsches could know far more than either you or I with my three Porsches.

usctrojanGT3

I fully expect the 992.2 GT3/Touring base MSRP to be around $200k so a decently optioned car will be easily mid-$200s. I've said this before, I'd rather give Porsche the "ADM" then some stealer or flipper.

Manifold

Yes, prices in the secondary market have been high for the hot cars, but I don’t think Porsche expects it to stay that way. Regarding MSRP increases over the past few years, compare with the CPI increase:

Manifold

Reaction to the car would be generally favorable ("nice twist on the GT3T") if it was priced reasonably, even if limited production and hard to get. What galls me is the calculated attempt at a money grab - make a small investment to modify an existing car, market it based on magic puristicallness, change the name to differentiate it, make it a limited edition to give a feeling of scarcity and exclusivity, and charge a huge price premium. You can 'blame' the buyers for paying the high prices, but I also expect more integrity from Porsche and AP. This is supposed to be a brand that earns what the customer pays by virtue of engineering excellence, cars that represent good value considering their performance, reliability, etc.

Wilder

1. you're assuming. Never a good thing.
2. you're still missing it. 911 price increases have been disproportionate for the brand, for luxury cars and for cars in general. This is about more than inflation. This is about reaching price equilibrium.

newalbanyohio

CPI Does NOT include actual real estate inflation. Google 'owners equivalent to rent'.
(if the CPI/ Inflation rate included the actual inflation in real estate/ rents the rate would be massively higher)

Manifold

1. I'm not assuming, I'm inferring.

2. Some info on car prices: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/infla...AXHzqgqN7sLMBy

Base 911 price was $99k in 2020, $116k in 2024, similar price increase for other 911 variants including GT3. The increases are in line with inflation.

https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/911
https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/911-gt3-gt3-rs

raymort

And there are many that see this as an astonishing cash grab from many that have more money than sense.

But, hey, if someone has that much money, you d finitely beat me on the cash game.

I see these cars as tools and not trophies. If you want the shorter gears, for about $12k you can have the transmission rebuilt exactly how you want it. If you want no RWS, with a PIWIS I’m sure you can disable it. If you want a lively rear end, set the rear sways to full stiff, the fronts to full soft, and increase the rear PSI.

If you want some added power, add the Dundon exhaust and M-Engineering tune. You will have way more power and torque than the RS.

The belief that the only way to get a car to drive like the ST is to pay 100K in MSRP with whatever ADM is just crazy to me.

But this real allure of the ST isn’t really performance, it’s a way for some to flex with the extra badge and ability that others can’t get one. The reality is many of us see that badge as one of gullibility.

Wilder

Go ahead and provide the evidence that Porsche doesn't expect prices to stay high that you used in your "inference". You won't be able to because it doesn't exist. You're assuming.

As for price increases, using a base is rather convenient. Try that with a GT3. Also, don't forget to factor in increases in the prices of options. You'll quickly see it has less to do with inflation and more to do with equilibrium. Conversely, show me the slack in demand. You won't be able to either, because, again, it doesn't exist.

Manifold

I gave you the link for the GT3, you can do the math yourself.

Demand has come down since last year, you can see it in prices. It will continue to come down. We are not in a new age of permanently much higher demand. If we were, Porsche would have raised prices across the board a lot more than they have, rather than making their extra profit through the special edition cars. It has been said many times that Porsche is playing the long game, which means prices have to make sense when the demand comes down to a normal level (they can't jack the MSRP way up now, and then drop it later).

Wilder

That link does not provide evidence that Porsche thinks prices will come down. Still an assumption and not an inference.

The new age that we're in is one where special/limited editions priced higher than average are the new normal and where low profit base Carreras are either produced in very low volumes or possibly not produced at all. This, in fact, is an inference made from comments made by the CEO and published in a recent press release around the time of the Dakar announcement. This is part of their strategy to move the 911 lineup upmarket and tighten that slack between current prices and demand. You're not wrong that they are going about it conservatively, and that's the smart thing to do. However, it is most definitely happening and it has little to do with inflation and more with PAG disclosed plans.

catdog2

Agree with @Wilder, they are throttling 911 supply back and controlling scarcity vs. demand
It's a calculated shift and moving 911 upmarket.. try to spec a decent C2S below $160k
There is nothing wrong with the S/T or with AP's statements and I love all the changes it comes with...
It's upsetting many because we all feel we may have stretched in terms of ADM or high price relative to the MSRP we paid in hope of getting some exclusivity or having the sense of safety of having the most desirable Porsche (GT3/Touring) for a few months/years and now we are left feeling there is a new more exclusive offering etc. and feel disappointed.
Imagine how Porsche feels seeing Singer and Restomodder's charging >million ... can you blame them for wanting to do better and push the envelope, get a more raw experience, and extract even more $ from the fans?

Manifold

Regardless of what the CEO may aspire to and claim, I don't see how it makes sense for them to try to go substantially upmarket when their best selling cars are under $100k and they dominate the sports car market from $100-250k.

911s and Caymans/Boxsters are inherently somewhat understated and utilitarian looking cars compared to exotics, and they're relatively mass produced with lots of dealers around. At my C&C, there are usually ~10x Porsches for every exotic. The ethos of the cars is that they're nice luxury and sports cars which are a decent value, more like BMW/MB+ than Ferrari/Lambo/McLaren lite. I don't think there will be a sustained demand for these cars at well over $200k. And don't forget that the new 911s compete with their used 991, 997, and older predecessors, of which there are many for sale with relatively low miles and priced way under $200k. Many people like the older cars more than the new ones - bigger isn't always better.