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Heck, that $300k total in dealer markup and profit can net you this:
With all these panels in carbon fibre:
And a bespoke suspension layout like this:
That rear suspension layout is full inboard like the CGT and all sorts of race cars.
That's how much Ford put into a 300k Mustang GTD vs what did Porsche put into the S/T again?
Ford does not have an ounce of inventiveness, they steal and copy everyone else's ideas and intellectual property, or have 3rd parties do the engineering heavy lifting - but they do have *****.
That's what a 'special' car suppose to be like. I have 1 of those 6. and 1 of 500 in the world. Even less than the 991 units of the 911R.
Last time Porsche made such a limited run, it was the 997 GT2RS with 500.
1963 units of the S/T is positively mass produced compared to the true limited cars. Heck, the 991 Speedster only had 1948 units. The 992 Sport Classic 1250 units.
Whoopsy...is there some agenda that we are missing? You were very quiet for years, now very verbose on this topic. You're coming across like Porsche did not take your advice into consideration in designing the S/T.
It's really quite simple. The S/T is the 911R for this generation. Nothing more, nothing less. It is EXACTLY as it is intended to be. My spidey sense is saying that the majority of the angst has to do with the price, which is a bargain, comparatively. The 911R was 7 years ago. Has your house gone up 50% in 7 years? Have your stocks gone up 50% in 7 years? If yes, then why would anyone expect the 911R to not go up 50% in 7 years.
So much wasted words on this topic. If someone doesn't like the potholes on your street, write to your local representative. I am sure that will fix the potholes. Might be easier to move.
My favorite parts of these threads are the parts bin special comments, comparing it to a 996GT3, how it should have weighed 2,200 lbs with 1 seat, and that the mustang and gt4rs is where all the auto engineering brain power goes these days.
Yet Porsche doesn't called the S/T the 992 911R for a reason. If one wants to believe Andy, then the company line is that there will only be 1 911R........they conveniently forgot the 24 or so from 1967.
At least Porsche made an EFFORT into doing the 911R, brand new 6 speed gearbox and optional single mass flywheel that they haven't really done before.
What effort has Porsche put into the S/T? Mostly none, unless one count doing new molds for the bespoke door panels. Is it a true lightweight drivers car? One look at the full interior tells you it isn't.
Starting off with a manual GT3 Touring with buckets, swap in the 3RS engine, change few gears inside the gearbox, take the hood from the Dakar, take the roof from the turbo S Lightweight. NEW door panels. And there, that's the S/T.
Our beloved Porsche is a renowned ENGINEERING powerhouse, for the price Porsche wants us to pay for the S/T, is it too much to ask for to have them at least put in some decent effort to create a real 'special' car?
1963 doesn’t sound so unobtainable from a car that has 26 variants and total output is between 40-50k cars a year. If you divide 50000 cars by 26 variants or however many it is they make then each model is limited in a sense are they not?
Go walk into your dealership and ask for an S/T.
Stores are getting either 1 or 2 of these. Which means if you're not the best or 2nd best customer in your entire dealership you're not getting one. The number 1963 may sound like a lot of cars but spread across the planet, it's not easy to get, even with a deep buying history with a store.
and he knew about the GT4RS and dropped hints years before they announced the car so he is more in the know with Porsche than most all dealers.
O.M.G. that's so cool he knew about the 4RS before most people! And he has a 918??
Swing off those nuts dude.
You thrive off painting yourself as a contrarian in here. It's comical. So is the fact that if you were offered the S/T at MSRP you would be singing it's praises in here. You're fooling no one.
Scroll back a few pages, he said Dakar > 918. I haven't read a word he's said since.
Stores are getting either 1 or 2 of these. Which means if you're not the best or 2nd best customer in your entire dealership you're not getting one. The number 1963 may sound like a lot of cars but spread across the planet, it's not easy to get, even with a deep buying history with a store.
I think the people that really want a ST will get a ST. There are enough cars spread around for that niche client. It’s just a matter of budget. 1963 units out of 40-50k 911 is not that limited. How big is the market for 300k+ cars anyway?
I think the people that really want a ST will get a ST. There are enough cars spread around for that niche client. It’s just a matter of budget. 1963 units out of 40-50k 911 is not that limited. How big is the market for 300k+ cars anyway?
You're very wrong. There are double digit lists at every store in the country for this car.
You're very wrong. There are double digit lists at every store in the country for this car.
When the call comes in that the car is ready to spec how many will all of the sudden need to talk to their wife, had a downturn in business, change of heart, or whatever other excuse to flake out? Don’t get me wrong. The car will be expensive and command a very hefty ADM. I just don’t think that the guy that truly wants that car and has funds ready to go will have a hard time getting one. I could be wrong though.
You're very wrong. There are double digit lists at every store in the country for this car.
At larger stores, the list/calls go 30-50 deep.
Getting on a list doesn't cost anything, at least at my dealer. Pulling the trigger when an allocation is offered is another matter. A significant percentage of people getting on lists are probably speculators, and they may not be so keen to buy the car if the prospect of flipping it for profit becomes uncertain.
When the call comes in that the car is ready to spec how many will all of the sudden need to talk to their wife, had a downturn in business, change of heart, or whatever other excuse to flake out? Don’t get me wrong. The car will be expensive and command a very hefty ADM. I just don’t think that the guy that truly wants that car and has funds ready to go will have a hard time getting one. I could be wrong though.
I don't think you have any experience with these limited run cars and who gets them. The top 1 or 2 clients at a dealership don't have to talk to their wife or have a business matter that will change their minds. They buy multiple cars a year. No one who actually gets an MSRP S/T is going to back down that wants the car,
Getting on a list doesn't cost anything, at least at my dealer. Pulling the trigger when an allocation is offered is another matter. A significant percentage of people getting on lists are probably speculators, and they may not be so keen to buy the car if the prospect of flipping it for profit becomes uncertain.
You know what I meant when I said the lists run deep on this car. The lists don't mean sh*t, it's a sign of the demand for the car. Stores are getting 1 or 2. The lists are irrelevant. The demand is not. That was the point I was making in response to this guy thinking anyone who wants an S/T can get one, which is hilarious.
When the call comes in that the car is ready to spec how many will all of the sudden need to talk to their wife, had a downturn in business, change of heart, or whatever other excuse to flake out? Don’t get me wrong. The car will be expensive and command a very hefty ADM. I just don’t think that the guy that truly wants that car and has funds ready to go will have a hard time getting one. I could be wrong though.
if you’re saying, anyone with $800k to drop on an ST will get one, you are probably right. Just pay the ADM at any dealer and it’s yours. But I doubt there are more than a handful of guys like this
If you’re saying customers that really want one but at MSRP or just not pay a crazy ADM, there are many that won’t get it one… like me. I have the cash right now ready to go but my dealer said even if they get 2 it’s all sold out.
When the call comes in that the car is ready to spec how many will all of the sudden need to talk to their wife, had a downturn in business, change of heart, or whatever other excuse to flake out? Don’t get me wrong. The car will be expensive and command a very hefty ADM. I just don’t think that the guy that truly wants that car and has funds ready to go will have a hard time getting one. I could be wrong though.
I wish it were that simple.
They're making a lot more 3RSs which isn't a numbered car and some of those are currently selling for $200k over. (I was told Porsche Naples just sold one for that much)
The whispered number from dealers is $250k over (give or take a penny) gets you an ST allocation walking off the street, some dealers want more. It will come down, this stuff always gets crazy at the front end, but notwithstanding what I or anyone else in this thread thinks of the car, serious collectors and FU moneybag guys look at the ST as the last R and they're all in on it because many think that in time it will be as or even be more collectible than the R. It doesn't matter if they're right or wrong, it does matter that they are willing to pay amounts commensurate to their opinions.
So yeah, the production numbers might make it seem like it shouldn't be a bigger deal than the 991 Speedster which was trading at around $100k over at launch, but the want for this appears to be a lot greater, and 2019 in terms of market conditions might as well be a century away.
Stores are getting either 1 or 2 of these. Which means if you're not the best or 2nd best customer in your entire dealership you're not getting one. The number 1963 may sound like a lot of cars but spread across the planet, it's not easy to get, even with a deep buying history with a store.
False, if he walks into the right dealers ready to bend over and stroke a big check I guarantee that he'll walk out with an allocation. The majority of US dealers will sell their ST allocation/s to the highest bidders. PNH will be one of few dealers who will sell the car to their best customers at MSRP.
False, if he walks into the right dealers ready to bend over and stroke a big check I guarantee that he'll walk out with an allocation. The majority of US dealers will sell their ST allocation/s to the highest bidders. PNH will be one of few dealers who will sell the car to their best customers at MSRP.
A broken record in here. He said with 1963 cars, the S/T won't be hard to get for those that want it, not implying paying an insane ADM to get one. Because anyone in the world can have any car in the world if they "stroke a big check" (have you trademarked that phrase yet?).
His implication was clear, 1,963 cars is a lot of cars, not hard to get one. And that's false.
08-20-2023, 01:29 PM
