911ST
08-19-2023, 12:05 PM
#2431
I'm applying and have already spoken to the owner of the dealership I buy my Fords from. We'll see, but I'm optimistic from what we spoke about. They got me a Raptor R and also pulled some strings when my 2016 GT350's engine seized at 3,500 miles in getting me a new GT350, and not just an engine replacement. Even still, I'll be extremely fortunate to get a Mustang GTD. Rumors are that Ford/Multimatic will produce about 2,000 units.
08-19-2023, 12:05 PM
#2432
Yup, they put all that in and it may be as fast as a base $186k 992 GT3 at the Ring, if that.
The performance that's built into the S/T is already proven in the lap times of the GT3 and GT3RS ... the S/T is just a non track focused vision of the latter.
The fact that a Mustang has to be that expensive and that trick to get to basic GT3 performance makes all the GT variants a bargain by comparison including the S/T, not the other way around.
The performance that's built into the S/T is already proven in the lap times of the GT3 and GT3RS ... the S/T is just a non track focused vision of the latter.
The fact that a Mustang has to be that expensive and that trick to get to basic GT3 performance makes all the GT variants a bargain by comparison including the S/T, not the other way around.
I'm applying and have already spoken to the owner of the dealership I buy my Fords from. We'll see, but I'm optimistic from what we spoke about. They got me a Raptor R and also pulled some strings when my 2016 GT350's engine seized at 3,500 miles in getting me a new GT350, and not just an engine replacement. Even still, I'll be extremely fortunate to get a Mustang GTD. Rumors are that Ford/Multimatic will produce about 2,000 units.
08-19-2023, 12:13 PM
#2433
No statements from Ford yet.
The aesthetics of the car is subjective of course but I really like it. It has a brutal look to it and is really aggressive. The application process will be similar to the Ford GT so I'd assume there will be a 2 year clause. One youtuber has stated that the wing will be optional but that remains to be stated by official channels. I agree that the wing is over the top but so is the wing on the GT3RS which happens to be the car that the Mustang GTD is going after.
Ford people are just unique as hell though and will go to the grave insisting its the brand of the God's. Thats why they can just the lipstick on a pig pricing.
Are they putting the hold it for 2 yrs clause on it? The physics of that wing just isnt making since though.
Are they putting the hold it for 2 yrs clause on it? The physics of that wing just isnt making since though.
08-19-2023, 12:25 PM
#2434
Rennlist Member
08-19-2023, 12:29 PM
#2435
08-19-2023, 12:36 PM
#2436
Rennlist Member
08-19-2023, 02:58 PM
#2437
Rennlist Member
Yup, they put all that in and it may be as fast as a base $186k 992 GT3 at the Ring, if that.
The performance that's built into the S/T is already proven in the lap times of the GT3 and GT3RS ... the S/T is just a non track focused vision of the latter.
The fact that a Mustang has to be that expensive and that trick to get to basic GT3 performance makes all the GT variants a bargain by comparison including the S/T, not the other way around.
The performance that's built into the S/T is already proven in the lap times of the GT3 and GT3RS ... the S/T is just a non track focused vision of the latter.
The fact that a Mustang has to be that expensive and that trick to get to basic GT3 performance makes all the GT variants a bargain by comparison including the S/T, not the other way around.
Interesting point of view.
Or could it be that Porsche is becoming complacent thus we get a half balked S/T instead of a true engineering marvel that's more worthy? Look no farther than the Dakar. Or the GT4RS for that matters. Or even the GT3RS. Those are the works of an engineering first car, the S/T is a marketing first car.
And you just said it, the S/T is just riding on the coat tails of the GT3 and GT3RS, it doesn't carry any merits on its own. Unlike this Mustang GTD.
I love Porsche, but I keep an open mind towards other brands. For the last 30+ years, I have had at least one from just about every car brand there is, outside of Tesla, Rivian the new kids on the block. Some are great, some are meh, but I don't prejudice against any one before I actually tried one. Porsche do have one of the best engineering team among all and they are mostly engineering centric, thus I keep coming back for more. But that doesn't mean others are being headed and staffed by incompetent 12 yr olds like Tesla.
Ford also have a rich racing history, the GT40, the Ford GT to name their Le Mans winners. They aren't a racing first company like Porsche but if they put their engineers to work, this GTD is the result. And the Ford GT before that. And in a way, the Ferrari beating Ford GT40.
This will be the base car for which Ford will compete in the GTD class at WEC and IMSA, the equivalent Porsche would be the GT3RS, which is the base for the GT3R race car in the GTD class. The GT3 is the base car for the Cup car in the Carrera Cup series, one or 2 step down.
BTW, taking emotions out one will make better decisions.
08-19-2023, 03:26 PM
#2438
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Or could it be that Porsche is becoming complacent thus we get a half balked S/T instead of a true engineering marvel that's more worthy? Look no farther than the Dakar. Or the GT4RS for that matters. Or even the GT3RS. Those are the works of an engineering first car, the S/T is a marketing first car.
1. Both get the same Motorsports 4.0L engine bolted into their respective base chassis (S/T's based on GT3RS with +25hp and more torque with better oiling compared to 4RS).
2. Both get unique low gearing (S/T's is Manual and 4RS's is PDK. S/T also gets special single-mass flywheel and lightweight clutch made for just this model).
3. Both get unique suspension tuning (S/T gets road-biased setup from GT3 and 4RS gets stiffened setup from GT4)
4. Both get lightweight standard parts
5. Both get same top level braking components (off the shelf from GT3/RS)
6. Both get same size wheels/tires from GT3/GT4, respectively
Both cool cars, but where is the big difference in engineering emphasis?
Last edited by GrantG; 08-19-2023 at 03:30 PM.
08-19-2023, 03:33 PM
#2439
Rennlist Member
It really doesn’t matter what class they’re trying to homologate. The FGT was also homologating something and it’s a pig on track relative to its piers, especially at its price point, racing heritage and all.
All that matters is where it sits in the real world relative to its road legal piers. If it’s at the GT3 pace then that’s the car to compare it to, if it gets in the mid 40s then it will be the 3RS. Time will literally tell.
I have zero brand tribalism, I’ve owned and currently own many brands including Ford, and I find the car interesting and cool, and it makes me happy that Ford made it exist. My comments aren’t meant to diminish it, they are just to say how easy it is to take GT performance value for granted because it has evolved in increments over time.
I’m not the audience for that car anyway as I’m pretty much done with big aero cars … I have no use for all that downforce on the street and I only track and compete in race cars for safety reasons.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see if this just barely scrapes below 7 minutes with 300 more HP than a GT3 or if it gets close to 2RS/3RS times. I'm rooting for it, but neither really has anything to do with the ST.
All that matters is where it sits in the real world relative to its road legal piers. If it’s at the GT3 pace then that’s the car to compare it to, if it gets in the mid 40s then it will be the 3RS. Time will literally tell.
I have zero brand tribalism, I’ve owned and currently own many brands including Ford, and I find the car interesting and cool, and it makes me happy that Ford made it exist. My comments aren’t meant to diminish it, they are just to say how easy it is to take GT performance value for granted because it has evolved in increments over time.
I’m not the audience for that car anyway as I’m pretty much done with big aero cars … I have no use for all that downforce on the street and I only track and compete in race cars for safety reasons.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see if this just barely scrapes below 7 minutes with 300 more HP than a GT3 or if it gets close to 2RS/3RS times. I'm rooting for it, but neither really has anything to do with the ST.
Last edited by soulsea; 08-19-2023 at 04:29 PM.
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08-19-2023, 04:57 PM
#2440
Drifting
It really doesn’t matter what class they’re trying to homologate. The FGT was also homologating something and it’s a pig on track relative to its piers, especially at its price point, racing heritage and all.
All that matters is where it sits in the real world relative to its road legal piers. If it’s at the GT3 pace then that’s the car to compare it to, if it gets in the mid 40s then it will be the 3RS. Time will literally tell.
I have zero brand tribalism, I’ve owned and currently own many brands including Ford, and I find the car interesting and cool, and it makes me happy that Ford made it exist. My comments aren’t meant to diminish it, they are just to say how easy it is to take GT performance value for granted because it has evolved in increments over time.
I’m not the audience for that car anyway as I’m pretty much done with big aero cars … I have no use for all that downforce on the street and I only track and compete in race cars for safety reasons.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see if this just barely scrapes below 7 minutes with 300 more HP than a GT3 or if it gets close to 2RS/3RS times. I'm rooting for it, but neither really has anything to do with the ST.
All that matters is where it sits in the real world relative to its road legal piers. If it’s at the GT3 pace then that’s the car to compare it to, if it gets in the mid 40s then it will be the 3RS. Time will literally tell.
I have zero brand tribalism, I’ve owned and currently own many brands including Ford, and I find the car interesting and cool, and it makes me happy that Ford made it exist. My comments aren’t meant to diminish it, they are just to say how easy it is to take GT performance value for granted because it has evolved in increments over time.
I’m not the audience for that car anyway as I’m pretty much done with big aero cars … I have no use for all that downforce on the street and I only track and compete in race cars for safety reasons.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see if this just barely scrapes below 7 minutes with 300 more HP than a GT3 or if it gets close to 2RS/3RS times. I'm rooting for it, but neither really has anything to do with the ST.
08-19-2023, 05:03 PM
#2441
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I fail to see how Porsche made a stronger engineering effort on the GT4 RS than the 911 S/T?:
1. Both get the same Motorsports 4.0L engine bolted into their respective base chassis (S/T's based on GT3RS with +25hp and more torque with better oiling compared to 4RS).
2. Both get unique low gearing (S/T's is Manual and 4RS's is PDK. S/T also gets special single-mass flywheel and lightweight clutch made for just this model).
3. Both get unique suspension tuning (S/T gets road-biased setup from GT3 and 4RS gets stiffened setup from GT4)
4. Both get lightweight standard parts
5. Both get same top level braking components (off the shelf from GT3/RS)
6. Both get same size wheels/tires from GT3/GT4, respectively
Both cool cars, but where is the big difference in engineering emphasis?
1. Both get the same Motorsports 4.0L engine bolted into their respective base chassis (S/T's based on GT3RS with +25hp and more torque with better oiling compared to 4RS).
2. Both get unique low gearing (S/T's is Manual and 4RS's is PDK. S/T also gets special single-mass flywheel and lightweight clutch made for just this model).
3. Both get unique suspension tuning (S/T gets road-biased setup from GT3 and 4RS gets stiffened setup from GT4)
4. Both get lightweight standard parts
5. Both get same top level braking components (off the shelf from GT3/RS)
6. Both get same size wheels/tires from GT3/GT4, respectively
Both cool cars, but where is the big difference in engineering emphasis?
By about 1/2 (*MSRP to MSRP)
08-19-2023, 05:04 PM
#2442
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
08-19-2023, 05:12 PM
#2443
Rennlist Member
I fail to see how Porsche made a stronger engineering effort on the GT4 RS than the 911 S/T?:
1. Both get the same Motorsports 4.0L engine bolted into their respective base chassis (S/T's based on GT3RS with +25hp and more torque with better oiling compared to 4RS).
2. Both get unique low gearing (S/T's is Manual and 4RS's is PDK. S/T also gets special single-mass flywheel and lightweight clutch made for just this model).
3. Both get unique suspension tuning (S/T gets road-biased setup from GT3 and 4RS gets stiffened setup from GT4)
4. Both get lightweight standard parts
5. Both get same top level braking components (off the shelf from GT3/RS)
6. Both get same size wheels/tires from GT3/GT4, respectively
Both cool cars, but where is the big difference in engineering emphasis?
1. Both get the same Motorsports 4.0L engine bolted into their respective base chassis (S/T's based on GT3RS with +25hp and more torque with better oiling compared to 4RS).
2. Both get unique low gearing (S/T's is Manual and 4RS's is PDK. S/T also gets special single-mass flywheel and lightweight clutch made for just this model).
3. Both get unique suspension tuning (S/T gets road-biased setup from GT3 and 4RS gets stiffened setup from GT4)
4. Both get lightweight standard parts
5. Both get same top level braking components (off the shelf from GT3/RS)
6. Both get same size wheels/tires from GT3/GT4, respectively
Both cool cars, but where is the big difference in engineering emphasis?
08-19-2023, 05:24 PM
#2444
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Sure, but what does that have to do with the engineering effort?
I might argue that the base 992 GT3 is the better value than the GT4 RS Weissach (nearly all 4RS have this expensive but merely cosmetic option), given its much more sophisticated suspension for similar money.
I might argue that the base 992 GT3 is the better value than the GT4 RS Weissach (nearly all 4RS have this expensive but merely cosmetic option), given its much more sophisticated suspension for similar money.
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Diablo Dude (08-20-2023)
08-19-2023, 05:25 PM
#2445
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Sure, but what does that have to do with the engineering effort?
I might argue that the base 992 GT3 is the better value than the GT4 RS Weissach (nearly all 4RS have this expensive but merely cosmetic option), given its much more sophisticated suspension for similar money.
I might argue that the base 992 GT3 is the better value than the GT4 RS Weissach (nearly all 4RS have this expensive but merely cosmetic option), given its much more sophisticated suspension for similar money.