When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Was at PEC yesterday speccing CXX on my touring. Personally showed the person who needs to know this thread and owner comments. He personally seemed to be getting right on it and was immediately contacting mothership.
What CXX options are you getting? My Touring locks in 2 weeks. Thanks 🙏
Greensboro Endo here
(sorry- should have been a PM)
Hi all - after an unexpected bout with a gall stone over the last few days (getting older is FUN!!!) I finally started wrenching and man did I learn a lot. I feel a little vindicated Before I start I also want to note that I have a source at PCNA that tells me there are no notes in the technical systems that indicate the ROTOR compound changed from 991 > 992.
1) The 992 pads are 'N" spec - meaning they conform to 2025 standards. As you can see here in the "N21" at the end of the compound code on the OEM 992 pads. The 991 pads are A spec, high copper content.
992 pad on right - note the "N21" specification meaning they are lower copper content, 2025 specification <0.5% by weight. 991 pad on the left - A20 specification - high copper content environmentally disastrous pads... "the good stuff".
2) The friction area on the 992 pad is smaller than the 991 pad.
991 pad on top, 992 pad on bottom - note the slightly smaller and different shaped friction surface
3) The 991 pad is considerably thicker than the 992 pad -
991 on left, 992 on right
So what does this all mean? The 992 PCCB pads are 2025 regulation ultra low copper pads, meaning less heat tolerance and more dust vs the 991 pads. My suspicions about the pads turned out to be correct. They even skipped the interim specification <5% and went to 2025 spec.
Do they fit even though they are thicker??? Stay tuned - by this afternoon I will have the front done and will be able to confirm whether they fit or don't fit. I would not order them yet - considering the significant thickness difference I do not know if the pistons will retract far enough to accomodate the older pads. I will know later today.
Thanks for the great info / hmm if low copper means more dust into the environment then that must negate any benefit from lowering Cu content- another 'woke' red herring 🙄
Great sleuthing! I kinda wish you found a mistake. I wonder what pads they ran on the ring / gave to journalists who thrashed press cars on the track.
In my incredibly unprofessional opinion - There is no way in hell these low copper pads would survive a pro driver on The Ring if they acted up for me on the Cherohala Skyway.
I just checked my EU spec car to see if maybe I have 991 pads since I do not have any brake dust or strange brake feel.
But I can confirm my pads look like the 992 pads you are showing, having those rounded edges as you can see on my picture.
still, I have driven my car with autobahn speeds, twisty roads and hard braking. Still no more dust as other CB’s I owned.
I hope those 991 pads will fit, otherwise we have to find out if there is a difference between EU and US pads.
Agree - those look identical to mine... However there may be a difference in the compound even if the shape is the same. I don't know why my car was so bad with the dust and juddering but this is the exact same issue the iron brake cars are having. I have confirmed with a heavy track user that the problem went away with different pads on his car with iron brakes. .
Brake dust issue is VERY real. I picked up my car from detailer on Friday. I put 500 miles on it doing city driving (45-75). No crazy braking at all, in fact much of it was engine braking with a MT.
Lots of dust, not only on the wheels, but also up along the rockers...I swiped my fingers across it to show the clean vs. dust - all of this in just 3 days of driving.
I have not noticed the "judder" yet as I haven't broken in the engine and haven't had a place to do performance braking.
Dust from 500 miles over 3 days with light braking. Dust along rockers - you can see a "spray" pattern of a light charcoal color from the wheel back.
^ Wow.....starting to get more convincing that less/no brake dust is not a reason to get PCCB. Next is the judder, TBD.
The looks alone make them worth while - size matters. But I agree that brake dust should be a lot less. So, how come my '21 Spyder with PCCBs do not get dusty? I am going to start a thread on that forum and see what Spyder and GT4 owners say.
I've driven a 718 Spyder with PCCBs very hard on COTA (not the same Spyder you are talking about, but it has the same brake package), and the stock brakes and fluid were fine. This is a 2022 model thing, they've decided to switch compounds. Will be interesting to see if this becomes a problem at HPDE events. I've never had to issue any kind of equipment advisory for a GT car before....aside from centerlocks
The 991 Pads fit like a glove. Went for a test drive. Braking performance was great, dust was non existent. I looked at the car upon return and all is well.
The looks alone make them worth while - size matters. But I agree that brake dust should be a lot less. So, how come my '21 Spyder with PCCBs do not get dusty? I am going to start a thread on that forum and see what Spyder and GT4 owners say.
I had a 20 Spyder with PCCB and no dust issues on track (which is where it's used hardest) or street. You'll have to look back but it's a 22 MY change due to US regs.
I had a 20 Spyder with PCCB and no dust issues on track (which is where it's used hardest) or street. You'll have to look back but it's a 22 MY change due to US regs.
I read the thread but since there are really no 2022 718s with PCCBs yet I had to be clear. I started the thread on the 718 Forum so hopefully we will find out soon.
11-13-2021, 04:13 PM
Before I start I also want to note that I have a source at PCNA that tells me there are no notes in the technical systems that indicate the ROTOR compound changed from 991 > 992.
