PCCB very dusty!
11-04-2021, 12:26 AM
#151
no one has actually answered that yet.
Hoping my 991 pads ship to me from suncoast tomorrow so I can rip some roads this weekend and put this issue to bed. I am a member at AMP and have twice been in the vicinity of the track on a member day. There is no way I would track the car with these pads or whatever the issue is that I have with the braking system.
The dust sucks but the juddering is even worse.
Hoping my 991 pads ship to me from suncoast tomorrow so I can rip some roads this weekend and put this issue to bed. I am a member at AMP and have twice been in the vicinity of the track on a member day. There is no way I would track the car with these pads or whatever the issue is that I have with the braking system.
The dust sucks but the juddering is even worse.
Anyone who can drive cares about the juddering and whether car has competent brakes, PCCB or not
The following users liked this post:
Il CP (11-04-2021)
11-04-2021, 12:34 AM
#152
The judder is to be taken seriously. PCCB brakes don't warp. If that has happened after a drive, you are more than likely havjng an issue with uneven pad material transfer. Normally such an issue is cured by a hard re-bedding. If possible, try the Pagid method of bedding. I have found it to work extremely well.
Start by doing 10 stops from 100 mph to 60 mph. Only use about 25% brake force. Use a medihm acelleration rate between slow-downs. This step is done to heat the system gently and seat the pads if needed.
Then do 5-7 stops from 115 to 50 mph. You need to apply as much brake as you can without activating the ABS. Acelleration should be full throttle. The goal here is to gas out the pads and transfer pad material. Rotors should glow red hot. This step will also clean off excess or different pad material.
Now after the last hard slow-down, keep speed steady at around 60 mph for a few minutes. Try not to apply any brake at this cooling stage.
After cooling for 4-5 minutes, do 5 stops like the initial soft ones. After this, drive the car home as gently as possible and park it for 24 hours. This is when the pad material cures.
Start by doing 10 stops from 100 mph to 60 mph. Only use about 25% brake force. Use a medihm acelleration rate between slow-downs. This step is done to heat the system gently and seat the pads if needed.
Then do 5-7 stops from 115 to 50 mph. You need to apply as much brake as you can without activating the ABS. Acelleration should be full throttle. The goal here is to gas out the pads and transfer pad material. Rotors should glow red hot. This step will also clean off excess or different pad material.
Now after the last hard slow-down, keep speed steady at around 60 mph for a few minutes. Try not to apply any brake at this cooling stage.
After cooling for 4-5 minutes, do 5 stops like the initial soft ones. After this, drive the car home as gently as possible and park it for 24 hours. This is when the pad material cures.
What's your source?
Though, if 992GT3 PCCB/steel brakes are proving incompetent vs any real-life stress scenarios, maybe there is no authoritative answer, let alone from a conflicted mfr, let alone the usual self-serving aftermkt guys
11-04-2021, 12:45 AM
#153
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: West Vancouver and San Francisco
Posts: 4,260
Received 1,225 Likes
on
603 Posts
Some on RL have claimed P pre-beds brake pads, so this process is unnecessary
What's your source?
Though, if 992GT3 PCCB/steel brakes are proving incompetent vs any real-life stress scenarios, maybe there is no authoritative answer, let alone from a conflicted mfr, let alone the usual self-serving aftermkt guys
What's your source?
Though, if 992GT3 PCCB/steel brakes are proving incompetent vs any real-life stress scenarios, maybe there is no authoritative answer, let alone from a conflicted mfr, let alone the usual self-serving aftermkt guys
11-04-2021, 04:07 AM
#154
Some on RL have claimed P pre-beds brake pads, so this process is unnecessary
What's your source?
Though, if 992GT3 PCCB/steel brakes are proving incompetent vs any real-life stress scenarios, maybe there is no authoritative answer, let alone from a conflicted mfr, let alone the usual self-serving aftermkt guys
What's your source?
Though, if 992GT3 PCCB/steel brakes are proving incompetent vs any real-life stress scenarios, maybe there is no authoritative answer, let alone from a conflicted mfr, let alone the usual self-serving aftermkt guys
My source for what?
Last edited by Il CP; 11-04-2021 at 04:09 AM.
11-04-2021, 04:23 AM
#155
Porsche pads do not outgass, so they are pre-cooked, so to say but not mated to the surface of the rotor. Mating generally is not necessary, though, and happens naturally during normal driving. Neither fully protects from uneven pad deposits, which happens with abrupt brake application or heavy ABS use with overheated pads. What is described is scrubbing off uneven pad deposits, which is similar to bedding but done for a different reason.
My point was more to do a thorough bedding to clean up the dics, and then do a "re-surfacing" that hopefully will last a bit better.
11-04-2021, 08:31 AM
#156
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Indeed. I was simply describing the bedding as a whole. I will say that when you have discs with some wear, mating is needed. But it happens pretty quick.
My point was more to do a thorough bedding to clean up the dics, and then do a "re-surfacing" that hopefully will last a bit better.
My point was more to do a thorough bedding to clean up the dics, and then do a "re-surfacing" that hopefully will last a bit better.
Thanks for this - I should probably do this process before swapping pads. It would be nice to know if the juddering is a separate issue from the dust or not so we know exactly what we are solving with the 991 pads.
I guess it's time for a game of clue.
11-04-2021, 08:34 AM
#157
TL;DR for a second time.........what is the Porsche store saying about it? Have they offered to reach out to their technical help in Germany?
11-04-2021, 09:26 AM
#158
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Last edited by sgroer; 11-04-2021 at 09:33 AM.
11-04-2021, 10:12 AM
#159
I'm asking from the perspective is no brake dust a feature one can expect from 992 GT3 PCCB as in past model years. Did Porsche even market PCCB as such in the first place. If it is known to not produce as much brake dust as it is doing now, then a product explanation should be given from Porsche as to why it's different now. An explanation as to whether you have a defect, no not expected performance, yes it will generate dust because copper regulations etc.
The following 2 users liked this post by SToronto:
Daft Chief (11-05-2021),
jfr0317 (11-04-2021)
11-04-2021, 10:16 AM
#160
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Oh yes from that perspective. I think that also jives with the tech document Grant posted earlier.
I'm asking from the perspective is no brake dust a feature one can expect from 992 GT3 PCCB as in past model years. Did Porsche even market PCCB as such in the first place. If it is known to not produce as much brake dust as it is doing now, then a product explanation should be given from Porsche as to why it's different now. An explanation as to whether you have a defect, no not expected performance, yes it will generate dust because copper regulations etc.
I'm asking from the perspective is no brake dust a feature one can expect from 992 GT3 PCCB as in past model years. Did Porsche even market PCCB as such in the first place. If it is known to not produce as much brake dust as it is doing now, then a product explanation should be given from Porsche as to why it's different now. An explanation as to whether you have a defect, no not expected performance, yes it will generate dust because copper regulations etc.
totally agree with this and that is the path we go down once we solve the problem and confirm the pads are the culprit.
The following users liked this post:
jfr0317 (11-04-2021)
11-04-2021, 11:04 AM
#161
This is a very interesting thread because if the dust issue is what is described here, I wouldnt order PCCBs given the size of iron rotors has increased substantially. In the previous GT3s, they were smaller and didnt have the bite PCCBs.
11-04-2021, 01:38 PM
#162
The very odd thing in this situation is the fact that the secondary reason for a low dust pad, after the obvious cosmetic benefit, is that it throws less particulate matter into the air, which is on the radar from an air quality issue. It seems odd that Porsche would offer a solution to solve one environmental concern that just raises another. Particularly odd given the fact that Porsche recently developed and deployed PSCB, one of the big benefits of which was low dust. To now just switch to a high dust pad would seem very strange, unless they got caught with their pants down from a regulatory perspective in the U.S. and had to rush a solution.
As someone with PCCBs on my '20 GT4 I'm concerned, as much about the idea of brake judder as dust, because if California has legislated this for new sale, they will surely stop the sale of similar replacement/aftermarket pads in the State as well. They've done that previously when they've banned other products for environmental reasons. And my soon to arrive Taycan 4S will have PSCB. Will be very interesting to see how they perform.
As someone with PCCBs on my '20 GT4 I'm concerned, as much about the idea of brake judder as dust, because if California has legislated this for new sale, they will surely stop the sale of similar replacement/aftermarket pads in the State as well. They've done that previously when they've banned other products for environmental reasons. And my soon to arrive Taycan 4S will have PSCB. Will be very interesting to see how they perform.
11-04-2021, 02:58 PM
#163
Rennlist Member
Oh yes from that perspective. I think that also jives with the tech document Grant posted earlier.
I'm asking from the perspective is no brake dust a feature one can expect from 992 GT3 PCCB as in past model years. Did Porsche even market PCCB as such in the first place. If it is known to not produce as much brake dust as it is doing now, then a product explanation should be given from Porsche as to why it's different now. An explanation as to whether you have a defect, no not expected performance, yes it will generate dust because copper regulations etc.
I'm asking from the perspective is no brake dust a feature one can expect from 992 GT3 PCCB as in past model years. Did Porsche even market PCCB as such in the first place. If it is known to not produce as much brake dust as it is doing now, then a product explanation should be given from Porsche as to why it's different now. An explanation as to whether you have a defect, no not expected performance, yes it will generate dust because copper regulations etc.
As to brake dust, they have always brushed that off in the past as "it's a performance car, squeal and dust are normal" with some condescension. Lol. Wouldn't expect any help with that from dealers.
11-04-2021, 03:11 PM
#164
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The very odd thing in this situation is the fact that the secondary reason for a low dust pad, after the obvious cosmetic benefit, is that it throws less particulate matter into the air, which is on the radar from an air quality issue. It seems odd that Porsche would offer a solution to solve one environmental concern that just raises another. Particularly odd given the fact that Porsche recently developed and deployed PSCB, one of the big benefits of which was low dust. To now just switch to a high dust pad would seem very strange, unless they got caught with their pants down from a regulatory perspective in the U.S. and had to rush a solution.
As someone with PCCBs on my '20 GT4 I'm concerned, as much about the idea of brake judder as dust, because if California has legislated this for new sale, they will surely stop the sale of similar replacement/aftermarket pads in the State as well. They've done that previously when they've banned other products for environmental reasons. And my soon to arrive Taycan 4S will have PSCB. Will be very interesting to see how they perform.
As someone with PCCBs on my '20 GT4 I'm concerned, as much about the idea of brake judder as dust, because if California has legislated this for new sale, they will surely stop the sale of similar replacement/aftermarket pads in the State as well. They've done that previously when they've banned other products for environmental reasons. And my soon to arrive Taycan 4S will have PSCB. Will be very interesting to see how they perform.
11-04-2021, 03:37 PM
#165