PCCB very dusty!
11-03-2021, 10:38 PM
#136
Do you actually read posts or are you too busy thinking up your next ADM related thread topic?
11-03-2021, 10:45 PM
#137
11-03-2021, 10:46 PM
#138
i surely don't hope you pay 30k for ceramic discs.
Anyway, when talking aftermarket pads, it is worth remembering that Pagid who is the most common manufacture for aftermarket pads for ceramic brakes, is the company behind just about all pad compounds used for ceramic brakes in the OE world. Some pads may say Porsche or Brembo on the box, but the pad material used was developed by Pagid for Textar, who still manufactures the pad material. Most pads use the ancient T4300 compound which was developed over 20 years ago. If anyone can create a safer and better compound, it is the company behind what used to be the standard. The RSC1 pad compound has proven itself for a few years now, and is superior for both CCM, CCST, and CCB rotors. It runs smoother, cooler and more quiet than T4300, and discs last longer. I have personally tested T4300 pads vs. RSC1 on track, and they run 50-60 degree C cooler. Aside from that, they last longer. Heat is what kills ceramic brakes, not pure friction. Where I am, lots of Porsche track rats run Pagid RSC 1, RSC 2 and RSC 3 pads with great results. Porsche discs are somewhat similar to Surface Transform discs, albeit a more cost effective version of a slightly lower quality, but still better than Classic CCM rotors. They are extremely tough and you can even run pads such as RSL1 and RSL29 on them despite those pads originally being developed for iron discs. I can tell you from personal experience on both road and track, and both with Ferrari and Porsche, that there has been nothing but positives when switching from O E pads to RSC1 pads. And if it is true that these new copper-free pads are performing even less satisfactory than the T4300 pads, then for me, aftermarket pads is a no-brainer.
To each their own I guess.
Anyway, when talking aftermarket pads, it is worth remembering that Pagid who is the most common manufacture for aftermarket pads for ceramic brakes, is the company behind just about all pad compounds used for ceramic brakes in the OE world. Some pads may say Porsche or Brembo on the box, but the pad material used was developed by Pagid for Textar, who still manufactures the pad material. Most pads use the ancient T4300 compound which was developed over 20 years ago. If anyone can create a safer and better compound, it is the company behind what used to be the standard. The RSC1 pad compound has proven itself for a few years now, and is superior for both CCM, CCST, and CCB rotors. It runs smoother, cooler and more quiet than T4300, and discs last longer. I have personally tested T4300 pads vs. RSC1 on track, and they run 50-60 degree C cooler. Aside from that, they last longer. Heat is what kills ceramic brakes, not pure friction. Where I am, lots of Porsche track rats run Pagid RSC 1, RSC 2 and RSC 3 pads with great results. Porsche discs are somewhat similar to Surface Transform discs, albeit a more cost effective version of a slightly lower quality, but still better than Classic CCM rotors. They are extremely tough and you can even run pads such as RSL1 and RSL29 on them despite those pads originally being developed for iron discs. I can tell you from personal experience on both road and track, and both with Ferrari and Porsche, that there has been nothing but positives when switching from O E pads to RSC1 pads. And if it is true that these new copper-free pads are performing even less satisfactory than the T4300 pads, then for me, aftermarket pads is a no-brainer.
To each their own I guess.
11-03-2021, 10:52 PM
#139
11-03-2021, 11:23 PM
#140
No. A set of RSL 1 pads for a Pista is about 1700 Euro including VAT and shipping. Those will last about 5-6 times as long as OE pads. RSC1 pads will last about 1.5 times as long as OE pads. RSC2 lasts about 3-4 times as long. They all cost less that the stock Ferrari pads.
Pagid pads for Porsche are about half price of what they are for a modern Ferrari. Also last about the same. With the right pads and between a few cars, I'd,say anual pad expenses are less than 5k Euro on average.
Now that all turns to crap if I run OE pads. Like with so many others, Pagid is having production delays etc. so I'm forced to run OE pads. This means I will probably go through three sets of pads this month which blows, and it will be harder on my discs due to high temps.
That's why I use Pagid. It saves me a lot over both Porsche and Ferrari OE pads, and performance is far superior, especially when mated to Surface Transforms discs.
Pagid pads for Porsche are about half price of what they are for a modern Ferrari. Also last about the same. With the right pads and between a few cars, I'd,say anual pad expenses are less than 5k Euro on average.
Now that all turns to crap if I run OE pads. Like with so many others, Pagid is having production delays etc. so I'm forced to run OE pads. This means I will probably go through three sets of pads this month which blows, and it will be harder on my discs due to high temps.
That's why I use Pagid. It saves me a lot over both Porsche and Ferrari OE pads, and performance is far superior, especially when mated to Surface Transforms discs.
11-03-2021, 11:28 PM
#141
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
You know as well as I do that the vast majority of GT3’s spend their days going to cars and coffee and being rubbed with a diaper.
Yes it’s wrong, but it is a sad truth.
Last edited by sgroer; 11-03-2021 at 11:37 PM.
11-03-2021, 11:42 PM
#142
Here in Europe I see a lot of them being tracked - moreso than what I see being putted around town for show. C'n'C is not as big here as it is in the US, and sports car and exotic car culture just strikes me as very different. High end sports cars and exotics generally seem to have lower mileage in the US vs. Europe. This is not about being prejudice, just an observation from afar.
11-03-2021, 11:47 PM
#143
Fascinating that any contacts at PCNA/Hennessy/whatever big US P dealers w/supposedly competent techs have no answer about issues/solutions vs 992GT3 PCCB judder/poss weakness in track driving (seems factory-spec steels have been identified so far as quickly failing in track duty; haven't yet seen reports of PCCBs w/track issues); the dust is a silly cosmetic issue (unless it's causing brake weaknesses)
Let's leave aside mocking the allegedly sophisticated EU guys who've had these GT3s for a few more mths than US guys who identified this brake incompetence in "mere" mountain road driving within a few wks of delivery: h/t sgroer
Let's leave aside mocking the allegedly sophisticated EU guys who've had these GT3s for a few more mths than US guys who identified this brake incompetence in "mere" mountain road driving within a few wks of delivery: h/t sgroer
11-03-2021, 11:52 PM
#144
Fascinating that any contacts at PCNA/Hennessy/whatever big US P dealers w/supposedly competent techs have no answer about issues/solutions vs 992GT3 PCCB judder/poss weakness in track driving (seems factory-spec steels have been identified so far as quickly failing in track duty; haven't yet seen reports of PCCBs w/track issues); the dust is a silly cosmetic issue (unless it's causing brake weaknesses)
Let's leave aside mocking the allegedly sophisticated EU guys who've had these GT3s for a few more mths than US guys who identified this brake incompetence in "mere" mountain road driving within a few wks of delivery: h/t sgroer
Let's leave aside mocking the allegedly sophisticated EU guys who've had these GT3s for a few more mths than US guys who identified this brake incompetence in "mere" mountain road driving within a few wks of delivery: h/t sgroer
The following users liked this post:
Il CP (11-04-2021)
11-03-2021, 11:55 PM
#145
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Marineland FL
Posts: 12,528
Likes: 0
Received 3,455 Likes
on
2,359 Posts
11-03-2021, 11:55 PM
#146
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
no one has actually answered that yet.
Hoping my 991 pads ship to me from suncoast tomorrow so I can rip some roads this weekend and put this issue to bed. I am a member at AMP and have twice been in the vicinity of the track on a member day. There is no way I would track the car with these pads or whatever the issue is that I have with the braking system.
The dust sucks but the juddering is even worse.
Last edited by sgroer; 11-04-2021 at 12:00 AM.
11-04-2021, 12:07 AM
#147
no one has actually answered that yet.
Hoping my 991 pads ship to me from suncoast tomorrow so I can rip some roads this weekend and put this issue to bed. I am a member at AMP and have twice been in the vicinity of the track on a member day. There is no way I would track the car with these pads or whatever the issue is that I have with the braking system.
The dust sucks but the juddering is even worse.
Hoping my 991 pads ship to me from suncoast tomorrow so I can rip some roads this weekend and put this issue to bed. I am a member at AMP and have twice been in the vicinity of the track on a member day. There is no way I would track the car with these pads or whatever the issue is that I have with the braking system.
The dust sucks but the juddering is even worse.
11-04-2021, 12:09 AM
#148
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
11-04-2021, 12:12 AM
#149
11-04-2021, 12:21 AM
#150
no one has actually answered that yet.
Hoping my 991 pads ship to me from suncoast tomorrow so I can rip some roads this weekend and put this issue to bed. I am a member at AMP and have twice been in the vicinity of the track on a member day. There is no way I would track the car with these pads or whatever the issue is that I have with the braking system.
The dust sucks but the juddering is even worse.
Hoping my 991 pads ship to me from suncoast tomorrow so I can rip some roads this weekend and put this issue to bed. I am a member at AMP and have twice been in the vicinity of the track on a member day. There is no way I would track the car with these pads or whatever the issue is that I have with the braking system.
The dust sucks but the juddering is even worse.
Start by doing 10 stops from 100 mph to 60 mph. Only use about 25% brake force. Use a medihm acelleration rate between slow-downs. This step is done to heat the system gently and seat the pads if needed.
Then do 5-7 stops from 115 to 50 mph. You need to apply as much brake as you can without activating the ABS. Acelleration should be full throttle. The goal here is to gas out the pads and transfer pad material. Rotors should glow red hot. This step will also clean off excess or different pad material.
Now after the last hard slow-down, keep speed steady at around 60 mph for a few minutes. Try not to apply any brake at this cooling stage.
After cooling for 4-5 minutes, do 5 stops like the initial soft ones. After this, drive the car home as gently as possible and park it for 24 hours. This is when the pad material cures.