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I think that the biggest single question that people have when it comes to making a GT car purchase is WHO are the MSRP dealers.
A few months ago, someone posted a Poll on RLshowing that there were 73 posters (40%) who obtained their GT car at MSRP with no ADM.
After nearly 450 pages on this ADM thread, I dont think that anyone has really answered the question of WHO these dealerships are.
Last edited by Diablo Dude; 07-20-2023 at 11:55 AM.
I think we have enough transparency on the prices of these cars from listings, auctions, forums, etc. Prices are high because of demand, not lack of transparency.
One could almost argue that prices are high because there is too much transparency.
I think that the biggest single question that people have when it comes to making a GT car purchase is WHO are the MSRP dealers.
A few months ago, someone posted a Poll on RLshowing that there were 73 posters (40%) who obtained their GT car at MSRP with no ADM.
After nearly 450 pages on this ADM thread, I dont think that anyone has really answered the question of WHO these dealerships are.
A dealer offering MSRP to one person doesn't mean another person will also be offered MSRP, it's all about relationships. I'll give you can example, there was a GT4RS sitting at a dealer here in SoCal. Friend #1 went to go look at it and they quoted him 100k over and wouldn't really budge/discuss it so he bought a different one for 70k over. Friend #1 had no real prior relationship from this dealership. Friend #2 just texted me yesterday with a photo of the same PTS 4RS and said he just picked it up for 20k over which is the cheapest 4RS markup I've heard of outside of getting one at MSRP. Friend #2 is a huge Porsche collector with 20+ Porsche's between his multiple east/west coast homes and has purchased Turbo S's/other cars from this dealer before. Friend #2 also has a Neo Ruby 4RS at his east coast home he received at MSRP after spending 1m+ in Porsche purchases at a dealer local to that home.
Just shows that there's a big difference in MSRP/markup's based on your relationship/purchase history.
Just shows that there's a big difference in MSRP/markup's based on your relationship/purchase history.
Yes, I realize that.
But aside from VIP "halo" clients, it still isnt readily apparent to me WHO the MSRP dealers are.
I've heard that here on the West Coast . . . Porsche of Santa Barbara is one. That's the only one that I've heard of.
A dealer offering MSRP to one person doesn't mean another person will also be offered MSRP, it's all about relationships. I'll give you can example, there was a GT4RS sitting at a dealer here in SoCal. Friend #1 went to go look at it and they quoted him 100k over and wouldn't really budge/discuss it so he bought a different one for 70k over. Friend #1 had no real prior relationship from this dealership. Friend #2 just texted me yesterday with a photo of the same PTS 4RS and said he just picked it up for 20k over which is the cheapest 4RS markup I've heard of outside of getting one at MSRP. Friend #2 is a huge Porsche collector with 20+ Porsche's between his multiple east/west coast homes and has purchased Turbo S's/other cars from this dealer before. Friend #2 also has a Neo Ruby 4RS at his east coast home he received at MSRP after spending 1m+ in Porsche purchases at a dealer local to that home.
Just shows that there's a big difference in MSRP/markup's based on your relationship/purchase history.
Or it just goes to show that paying an ADM comes in all forms. Directly, or indirectly (like buying multiple cars of 1M+).
One could almost argue that prices are high because there is too much transparency.
At least on the supply side.
It would certainly be interesting to come across 992 GT3 production numbers for North America or the U.S. Market in particular.
I had the following numbers for the U.S. based on documents that were posted by 416GT back in November of 2022, via the Corvette forum:
MY 2018/2019 saw 2,794 GT3's produced for the U.S. ( 714 Tourings all Manual )
MY 2022/2023 saw 2,893 GT3's produced for the U.S. ( 823 Tourings, 594 Manual and 229 PDK )
But aside from VIP "halo" clients, it still isnt readily apparent to me WHO the MSRP dealers are.
I've heard that here on the West Coast . . . Porsche of Santa Barbara is one. That's the only one that I've heard of.
How many dealers have you called and asked if they will sell you a GT car at MSRP? Given your weak purchase history of Porsche compared to many others, I doubt any dealer (especially in CA) will give you an allocation at MSRP. Why should they?
OTOH, customers with purchase histories may get offered GT cars at MSRP, pretty simple, not sure why this concept is so difficult to understand for you.
These numbers would indicate that only 28% of 992 GT3 Production are Tourings.
And of that only 207 in California.
But anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise to me. There wasnt a single Touring entered at this year's Luftgekuhlt 9 which I attended here at Mare Island.
And at a recent first held "C&C" in my area last weekend, my Touring was the only 1 out of 15 GT cars.
Last edited by Diablo Dude; 07-20-2023 at 03:02 PM.
alas you’re wrong. It’s still a simple tale of market demand. You even have world wide real time pricing and auction information and still can’t negotiate a better deal. Because you lack power. Because demand is high enough that you are just another fish in the sea.
You can have all the pricing off various sites / auction info you want and that might not help negotiate a price that isn't significantly higher than MSRP. We have no clue who is really buying these cars, how many dealers have sold at MSRP or sold to Luxury dealers. We also have no control or visibility over how Mannheim or KBB prices the wholesale market. I doubt it's just simple market supply and demand because personally I believe it's way complex than a simple tale of market demand.
Anyways, all good. Prices are what they are. You, DD and others are free to disagree with my take and I respect your opinions. I have no idea and don't really care how it goes from here. If prices come back to earth regarding GT3s, I would love to get into one. If they stay forever high, that's great too. I'm grateful for the sports cars I have now and the blessings I have in my life ( health, family, career and friends ).
Safe to say the market remains relatively healthy for decent specd GT3Ts. The following auction for a 2022 w/2k, NO PCCBS and sofas just closed at 282k.
Safe to say the market remains relatively healthy for decent specd GT3Ts. The following auction for a 2022 w/2k, NO PCCBS and sofas just closed at 282k.
hmm… I’m not usually an auction denier, but that surely was an odd +~$45k bid at the end there. Not to mention there are many cheaper, better spec Ed touring for sale at the moment too
Sorry to hear that. I know how set your heart was on getting one.
Is PNH no longer selling GT cars to their long-term clients at MSRP?
The GT3RS was a "nice to have" while the GT4RS and Touring were "really want to have" cars because I provided my ranking of the cars that I wanted...1) GT4RS, 2) Touring, and 3) GT3RS. Unless they get enough allocations I probably won't get one. The GM did tell me that if I don't get a 992.1 GT3RS then I'll for sure get the 992.2 GT3RS so not a big deal. The GT4RS will be my primary track car as I loved tracking my GT4s.
The GT3RS was a "nice to have" while the GT4RS and Touring were "really want to have" cars because I provided my ranking of the cars that I wanted...1) GT4RS, 2) Touring, and 3) GT3RS. Unless they get enough allocations I probably won't get one. The GM did tell me that if I don't get a 992.1 GT3RS then I'll for sure get the 992.2 GT3RS so not a big deal. The GT4RS will be my primary track car as I loved tracking my GT4s.
good on your dealer to weigh the desirability of each customer with their allocations!
But aside from VIP "halo" clients, it still isnt readily apparent to me WHO the MSRP dealers are.
I've heard that here on the West Coast . . . Porsche of Santa Barbara is one. That's the only one that I've heard of.
Porsche Fresno also sells GT cars for MSRP to their good customers.
07-20-2023, 11:53 AM
