A place to discuss all things ADM
03-05-2023, 12:45 AM
#5026
Burning Brakes
makes sense. Why sell a specable allocation at $30k when market is higher for a used one.
03-05-2023, 12:52 AM
#5027
Burning Brakes
$50,000 over and its just getting started.
It's now March of 2023. Where's that Recession that Manifold and Trojan have been talking about for nearly a year?
Why are ADM's still robust?
It must be because "dealerships control the SUPPLY of GT cars."
Hahahahahaha!
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...t3-touring-23/
It's now March of 2023. Where's that Recession that Manifold and Trojan have been talking about for nearly a year?
Why are ADM's still robust?
It must be because "dealerships control the SUPPLY of GT cars."
Hahahahahaha!
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...t3-touring-23/
03-05-2023, 02:17 AM
#5028
If this is not an indication of the shortage , then I don’t know what is.
03-05-2023, 02:57 AM
#5029
In the tri-state, most dealers that I’ve contacted have no GT3 allocations.
But they have offered the GT4RS at $75k, 2nd allocation GT3RS to be delivered by end of year at $200k which I passed on.
03-05-2023, 11:30 AM
#5030
Rennlist Member
Math and economics 101 example:
Suppose a GT3 costs 150 to manufacture and the highest value placed on it by any potential buyer is 300k. The $150k difference goes somewhere. A typical outcome might be (not including taxes etc.):
Dealer acquires it for 180k --30k profit to Porsche
Dealer sells at MSRP 200k plus 30k ADM-- 50k profit to dealer
Flipper sells it to final buyer for 290k - 60k profit to flipper
Final buyer values the car at 300k, so 10k in value accrues to the end user.
It seems like some people are advocating for this (Alternative #1):
Dealer acquires it for 180k --30k profit to Porsche
Dealer sells at MSRP 200k to the end user- 20k profit to dealer
Final buyer values the car at 300k, so 100k in value accrues to the end user.
The other extreme seems to be (Alternative #2):
Porsche auctions the car directly and it sells at 290k- $140k profit to Porsche
Final buyer values the car at 300k, so 10k in value accrues to the end user.
The issue with Alternative #1 is that there are 100 buyers who are willing to pay MSRP for every one available. So the result is waitlists, flippers, kickbacks, and ultimately the dealer will never know that they found the one buyer out there that valued it the most. In fact, they probably will end up selling to someone who simply values it more than MRSP. That buyer values it far less that the top potential buyer, so those "serious enthusiasts" will resent the recreational buyer who simply got lucky in the allocation lottery. This then results in the creation of flippers who get allocations and bring us right back to where we are today.
The problem with Alternative #2 (eliminating the dealers and auctioning directly), is that the dealer network does provide a service to Porsche, so Porsche wants them to exist. Cutting them out or reducing their share is in Porsche's control through the wholesale price to dealers of the cars and the allocations to dealers. Porsche is optimizing that when they decide how much they want dealers to be able to profit on ADMs.
Long story short, for a car that is manufactured for far less than what the market is willing to pay, there is a huge economic gain to be had by someone. Someone will get that gain, whether it is Porsche, the dealers, a flipper, or an end user who gets the car for less than someone else would have been willing to pay for it.
Given that Porsche created and owns the cars, they can control what happens to them, and they are choosing to 1) jack up prices a bit, 2) allow dealers a larger than average share through ADMs, 3) rewarding some long term customers through below market pricing, and 4) generally exerting pressure on the system to reduce flipping. That said, when a car changes hands for a below market price, the buyer will always have an economic gain either from having gotten a great deal and saving money, or by having an opportunity to flip. Of course people on Rennlist generally want a system where the economic gain all goes to them.
Suppose a GT3 costs 150 to manufacture and the highest value placed on it by any potential buyer is 300k. The $150k difference goes somewhere. A typical outcome might be (not including taxes etc.):
Dealer acquires it for 180k --30k profit to Porsche
Dealer sells at MSRP 200k plus 30k ADM-- 50k profit to dealer
Flipper sells it to final buyer for 290k - 60k profit to flipper
Final buyer values the car at 300k, so 10k in value accrues to the end user.
It seems like some people are advocating for this (Alternative #1):
Dealer acquires it for 180k --30k profit to Porsche
Dealer sells at MSRP 200k to the end user- 20k profit to dealer
Final buyer values the car at 300k, so 100k in value accrues to the end user.
The other extreme seems to be (Alternative #2):
Porsche auctions the car directly and it sells at 290k- $140k profit to Porsche
Final buyer values the car at 300k, so 10k in value accrues to the end user.
The issue with Alternative #1 is that there are 100 buyers who are willing to pay MSRP for every one available. So the result is waitlists, flippers, kickbacks, and ultimately the dealer will never know that they found the one buyer out there that valued it the most. In fact, they probably will end up selling to someone who simply values it more than MRSP. That buyer values it far less that the top potential buyer, so those "serious enthusiasts" will resent the recreational buyer who simply got lucky in the allocation lottery. This then results in the creation of flippers who get allocations and bring us right back to where we are today.
The problem with Alternative #2 (eliminating the dealers and auctioning directly), is that the dealer network does provide a service to Porsche, so Porsche wants them to exist. Cutting them out or reducing their share is in Porsche's control through the wholesale price to dealers of the cars and the allocations to dealers. Porsche is optimizing that when they decide how much they want dealers to be able to profit on ADMs.
Long story short, for a car that is manufactured for far less than what the market is willing to pay, there is a huge economic gain to be had by someone. Someone will get that gain, whether it is Porsche, the dealers, a flipper, or an end user who gets the car for less than someone else would have been willing to pay for it.
Given that Porsche created and owns the cars, they can control what happens to them, and they are choosing to 1) jack up prices a bit, 2) allow dealers a larger than average share through ADMs, 3) rewarding some long term customers through below market pricing, and 4) generally exerting pressure on the system to reduce flipping. That said, when a car changes hands for a below market price, the buyer will always have an economic gain either from having gotten a great deal and saving money, or by having an opportunity to flip. Of course people on Rennlist generally want a system where the economic gain all goes to them.
Last edited by 993TurboS; 03-05-2023 at 11:36 AM.
The following users liked this post:
AlexCeres (03-05-2023)
03-05-2023, 03:28 PM
#5031
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
03-05-2023, 04:30 PM
#5032
Burning Brakes
03-05-2023, 04:49 PM
#5033
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
03-05-2023, 04:59 PM
#5034
03-05-2023, 05:25 PM
#5035
The higher floor rates dealers need to pay and the lenders wanting them to sell cars might get them off their azz to sell at lower prices, we shall see.
03-05-2023, 05:29 PM
#5036
Burning Brakes
2022 MSRP was ~$163k. Carbon roof and LWBS are an additional $9k. Couldn’t find any other options. No button for FAL in console = no FAL. So…
03-05-2023, 07:45 PM
#5037
Looks like they were originally asking $279,977 for essentially a "stripper". That's at least $100,000 over.
$161,100 MSRP + $5,900 (bucket seats) + $3,890 (roof) + $1600 (Bose?) + $1,350 (delivery) + $1,700 (gas guzzler) = $175,540
Oct. 2021 build.
Last edited by Diablo Dude; 03-06-2023 at 12:13 AM.
03-05-2023, 07:49 PM
#5038
Question for the experts: What is the current market circumstance premium for a PTS manual 6SPD GT3 Pcar? (Asking for a friend)...
03-05-2023, 07:53 PM
#5039
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The following users liked this post:
JAB12 (03-05-2023)
03-05-2023, 11:16 PM
#5040
The following 2 users liked this post by usctrojanGT3:
FirstPorscheGT3 (03-05-2023),
michaeldorian (03-06-2023)