50th Anniversary sales stats/colour/PDK
07-07-2014, 08:58 PM
#91
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Can you guys see this pic?
If yes, and if there's any interest I can add some more.
We had a little gathering of about 60 Porsches in Belgium and the 3 Jubi colors were represented, along with a 991 Targa...
If yes, and if there's any interest I can add some more.
We had a little gathering of about 60 Porsches in Belgium and the 3 Jubi colors were represented, along with a 991 Targa...
07-08-2014, 07:49 AM
#94
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Sent the N° via pm, they are both PDK
This site will reveal some more info (if you're looking into that).
Kids here roam the streets taking pictures of cool cars. More often than not they include the number on the glove compartiment or a shot of the interior...
Knock yourself out!
http://www.autogespot.be/nl/porsche/...spottype=photo
This site will reveal some more info (if you're looking into that).
Kids here roam the streets taking pictures of cool cars. More often than not they include the number on the glove compartiment or a shot of the interior...
Knock yourself out!
http://www.autogespot.be/nl/porsche/...spottype=photo
07-08-2014, 08:04 AM
#95
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Been there done that already, got around 110 cars from Autogespot!
This isn't the same black one you told me about earlier is it, if it isn't then it adds up to 2 black cars in Belgium!
This isn't the same black one you told me about earlier is it, if it isn't then it adds up to 2 black cars in Belgium!
Last edited by Mondrian; 07-08-2014 at 08:40 AM.
07-08-2014, 09:19 AM
#97
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The question of depreciation has popped up a few times, here are my thoughts and numbers on current & future trends for 50th anniversary model.
People compare 50th to 40th which really is not like for like – yes they do share a commonality in that 1963 of each were made and both are anniversary models but what sets them apart?
Porsche 911 sales were lower 10 years ago and there was no new world market out there – Combined sales in China, SE Asia, Middle East, eastern Europe, south America, Africa accounted for less than 4% of 911 sales in 2004. However in 2014 these new markets are estimated to account for close to a quarter of worldwide sales of 911. So this time there is actually less anniversary model cars (out of the 1963 cars) fed to the historical western markets (by some 300-400 cars) while the size of market has grown by well over 10% - net ratio is that Porsche only fed 2/3 of the numbers of 40th to the same markets and as we know price is dictated by supply & demand so supply is down and demand is up!
Don’t forget 40th was based on 996, the ugly duckling & least desirable of all 7 generations of Porsche and introduced to the market at the end of that model lifespan while the 50th is based on 991 which is widely perceived as the most beautiful (some say on par with the classic 911’s) and also at the beginning of the model lifecycle.
It is also only the second European retro look car that has ever been mass produced – first being BMW Z8 which was a nod to the classic 507 – 5703 were built of which 2543 were sent across the pond to US, (I omitted US muscle cars as I don’t know much about these new reincarnated models or if there is anything retro about them). In case you haven’t noticed retro is very popular in the motor industry, there are quite a few motorcycle manufacturers that are doing very good business on the retro café-racer look (Triumph, Motto Guzzi as well as the Japanese etc), but we have not seen any cars jumping on that boat as there are not many that were around 50 years ago (in 60’s). Have a good look around at custom specialists doing retro bikes and cars (such as Singer) & the prices they charge!
So it should not be a surprise that while Porsche started deliveries very late in 2013, already in May all cars were sold-out meaning that you could not order & spec a new car, just what dealers have in their stock - all these were sold with little or no discount which certainly was not the case for the 40th or the 991. So 911-50 not selling well is a total myth – I tried to buy a new one in May and Porsche GB said there is none left and all is sold-out and no dealer stocks either!
I haven’t really kept an eye on the world-wide used prices but here in UK every used car listed has been at same level or over list prices and sold pretty quick. In actual fact the last two used cars in England were listed for 3-5% above list price and both sold within 48 hours (last weekend) so doubt any discounts were given on those prices. This is still early days and there is some confusion and mis-information out there so if you can grab a deal then go for it and in actual fact some have taken advantage and managed to get good deals - have heard 7% discount on new 50th from a US rennlister & another member in UK reported 12% below new list price for a used sub 2000 miles 50th, but these seem to be exceptions rather than norm and you have to factor in the options too!
Also worth noting is that you had little or no options on 40th anniversary whereas you have a choice of 3 exterior colours, 3 interior trims & lots of other options which make these cars even more unique. As an example I will throw some numbers at my car, a Geyser Grey. According to my estimation less than 100 anniversary 991 cars were imported into UK (against 120 of 40th). Based on my stats of the 25 cars I have tagged in UK, 28% are Geysers which means there are at most 28 Geysers in UK. To add a reference to that number, 32 sports classic cars were allocated in the UK in 2009/10. So already there are less geysers than Club Coupe’s even without reducing the numbers by sunroof delete, rear wiper delete, black leather delete, MF s/wheel delete etc (or add if you fancy). By the time I am through with all that then there is only a handful of cars with similar spec than mine in UK which is pretty rare for a car at this price point (100,000 GBP).
Meanwhile Porsche is churning out over 30,000 911 cars every year (over 1500 in UK) for the duration of its lifespan (over 200,000 in lifecycle) while there will be no more 50th so no way 50th anniversary will have the same depreciation as that of 991 or 40th, hell it could even hold or appreciate in the long run depending on what Porsche does with their future 911. For an alternative reference look at a 30th anniversary model with almost 20,000 miles on the clock – listed by a Porsche dealer in Netherlands for 130,000 euro that’s around US$180,000 – yes we know C2 964 prices are high but as a non anniversary 964 that car would have been 30 – 40% lower.
Attachment 851205
People compare 50th to 40th which really is not like for like – yes they do share a commonality in that 1963 of each were made and both are anniversary models but what sets them apart?
Porsche 911 sales were lower 10 years ago and there was no new world market out there – Combined sales in China, SE Asia, Middle East, eastern Europe, south America, Africa accounted for less than 4% of 911 sales in 2004. However in 2014 these new markets are estimated to account for close to a quarter of worldwide sales of 911. So this time there is actually less anniversary model cars (out of the 1963 cars) fed to the historical western markets (by some 300-400 cars) while the size of market has grown by well over 10% - net ratio is that Porsche only fed 2/3 of the numbers of 40th to the same markets and as we know price is dictated by supply & demand so supply is down and demand is up!
Don’t forget 40th was based on 996, the ugly duckling & least desirable of all 7 generations of Porsche and introduced to the market at the end of that model lifespan while the 50th is based on 991 which is widely perceived as the most beautiful (some say on par with the classic 911’s) and also at the beginning of the model lifecycle.
It is also only the second European retro look car that has ever been mass produced – first being BMW Z8 which was a nod to the classic 507 – 5703 were built of which 2543 were sent across the pond to US, (I omitted US muscle cars as I don’t know much about these new reincarnated models or if there is anything retro about them). In case you haven’t noticed retro is very popular in the motor industry, there are quite a few motorcycle manufacturers that are doing very good business on the retro café-racer look (Triumph, Motto Guzzi as well as the Japanese etc), but we have not seen any cars jumping on that boat as there are not many that were around 50 years ago (in 60’s). Have a good look around at custom specialists doing retro bikes and cars (such as Singer) & the prices they charge!
So it should not be a surprise that while Porsche started deliveries very late in 2013, already in May all cars were sold-out meaning that you could not order & spec a new car, just what dealers have in their stock - all these were sold with little or no discount which certainly was not the case for the 40th or the 991. So 911-50 not selling well is a total myth – I tried to buy a new one in May and Porsche GB said there is none left and all is sold-out and no dealer stocks either!
I haven’t really kept an eye on the world-wide used prices but here in UK every used car listed has been at same level or over list prices and sold pretty quick. In actual fact the last two used cars in England were listed for 3-5% above list price and both sold within 48 hours (last weekend) so doubt any discounts were given on those prices. This is still early days and there is some confusion and mis-information out there so if you can grab a deal then go for it and in actual fact some have taken advantage and managed to get good deals - have heard 7% discount on new 50th from a US rennlister & another member in UK reported 12% below new list price for a used sub 2000 miles 50th, but these seem to be exceptions rather than norm and you have to factor in the options too!
Also worth noting is that you had little or no options on 40th anniversary whereas you have a choice of 3 exterior colours, 3 interior trims & lots of other options which make these cars even more unique. As an example I will throw some numbers at my car, a Geyser Grey. According to my estimation less than 100 anniversary 991 cars were imported into UK (against 120 of 40th). Based on my stats of the 25 cars I have tagged in UK, 28% are Geysers which means there are at most 28 Geysers in UK. To add a reference to that number, 32 sports classic cars were allocated in the UK in 2009/10. So already there are less geysers than Club Coupe’s even without reducing the numbers by sunroof delete, rear wiper delete, black leather delete, MF s/wheel delete etc (or add if you fancy). By the time I am through with all that then there is only a handful of cars with similar spec than mine in UK which is pretty rare for a car at this price point (100,000 GBP).
Meanwhile Porsche is churning out over 30,000 911 cars every year (over 1500 in UK) for the duration of its lifespan (over 200,000 in lifecycle) while there will be no more 50th so no way 50th anniversary will have the same depreciation as that of 991 or 40th, hell it could even hold or appreciate in the long run depending on what Porsche does with their future 911. For an alternative reference look at a 30th anniversary model with almost 20,000 miles on the clock – listed by a Porsche dealer in Netherlands for 130,000 euro that’s around US$180,000 – yes we know C2 964 prices are high but as a non anniversary 964 that car would have been 30 – 40% lower.
Attachment 851205
07-09-2014, 08:38 AM
#98
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thanks anissut, an interesting side note on previous anniversary models;
All the previous Porsche 911 anniversary models i.e. 40th, 30th, 25th were introduced at the end of their respective model’s lifecycle. 25th was introduced in 1988 when the classic body was being replaced by 964, 30th was introduced in 1993 when yuppie era came to end and 911 sales were down & Porsche looking for a “pick-me-up” between the end of 964 and launch of 993. 40th anniversary 996 was launched in 2003 again as a “pick-me-up” before the launch of 997.
In all cases the changes were cosmetic and bar the fuchs wheels on 25th anniversary model there was no design reference to the classic 911 but an extension of options on current styling of the rera. In comparison 50th does break mould on 2 fronts, it’s the first anniversary model that has been launched at an early stage of the model's lifecycle and secondly by offering a few design references to the classic 911 namely the Wide body C2, Grey colours, Pepita seats, green dials, retro 20" Fuchs & chrome accents on front & rear panels.
All the previous Porsche 911 anniversary models i.e. 40th, 30th, 25th were introduced at the end of their respective model’s lifecycle. 25th was introduced in 1988 when the classic body was being replaced by 964, 30th was introduced in 1993 when yuppie era came to end and 911 sales were down & Porsche looking for a “pick-me-up” between the end of 964 and launch of 993. 40th anniversary 996 was launched in 2003 again as a “pick-me-up” before the launch of 997.
In all cases the changes were cosmetic and bar the fuchs wheels on 25th anniversary model there was no design reference to the classic 911 but an extension of options on current styling of the rera. In comparison 50th does break mould on 2 fronts, it’s the first anniversary model that has been launched at an early stage of the model's lifecycle and secondly by offering a few design references to the classic 911 namely the Wide body C2, Grey colours, Pepita seats, green dials, retro 20" Fuchs & chrome accents on front & rear panels.
07-14-2014, 02:30 PM
#99
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I now have confirmation that there are 21 PDK & 4 7MT cars available in Porsche showrooms across states. Might sound like a lot but if you are specific with your options then getting a deal won't be on the cars e.g. If you want a black manual there is only 1 in the whole of states (& the dealers will know about that) and even then its with a glass sunroof which may or may not suit your requirements.
07-15-2014, 11:41 AM
#100
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Stats update
So 5000 views later we now have 329 cars on file and time for some updated data - I have quoted the previous figures for each category for reference;
Total cars made = 1965 = 1963 + 2 pre-production cars
Total cars tagged = 329
Cars with a country tag = 329
Cars with a colour tag = 329
Cars with a G/Box tag = 184
Tagged cars with LE no = 131 + 2 x 0000 at Porsche museum
Lowest LEN on file = 13
Highest LEN on file = 1963
Most famous car on file - LE number 50 seen at Porsche Museum on Porsche Museum plates - will post pic separately.
PDK vs Manual
PDK = 137 (74.5%)
7MT = 47 (25.5%)
Interestingly Porsche enthusiasts i.e. forum members (total of rennlist & other forums) show a very different g/box preference in that its almost a 50/50 split, hence the endless PDK v Manual discussions - no clear winner due to even split.
PDK = 24
7MT = 27
Therefore I am guessing that actual worldwide 7MT figures would be somewhere between 15 - 20%
Total cars made = 1965 = 1963 + 2 pre-production cars
Total cars tagged = 329
Cars with a country tag = 329
Cars with a colour tag = 329
Cars with a G/Box tag = 184
Tagged cars with LE no = 131 + 2 x 0000 at Porsche museum
Lowest LEN on file = 13
Highest LEN on file = 1963
Most famous car on file - LE number 50 seen at Porsche Museum on Porsche Museum plates - will post pic separately.
PDK vs Manual
PDK = 137 (74.5%)
7MT = 47 (25.5%)
Interestingly Porsche enthusiasts i.e. forum members (total of rennlist & other forums) show a very different g/box preference in that its almost a 50/50 split, hence the endless PDK v Manual discussions - no clear winner due to even split.
PDK = 24
7MT = 27
Therefore I am guessing that actual worldwide 7MT figures would be somewhere between 15 - 20%
07-15-2014, 04:38 PM
#102
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The question of depreciation has popped up a few times, here are my thoughts and numbers on current & future trends for 50th anniversary model.
People compare 50th to 40th which really is not like for like – yes they do share a commonality in that 1963 of each were made and both are anniversary models but what sets them apart?
Porsche 911 sales were lower 10 years ago and there was no new world market out there – Combined sales in China, SE Asia, Middle East, eastern Europe, south America, Africa accounted for less than 4% of 911 sales in 2004. However in 2014 these new markets are estimated to account for close to a quarter of worldwide sales of 911. So this time there is actually less anniversary model cars (out of the 1963 cars) fed to the historical western markets (by some 300-400 cars) while the size of market has grown by well over 10% - net ratio is that Porsche only fed 2/3 of the numbers of 40th to the same markets and as we know price is dictated by supply & demand so supply is down and demand is up!
Don’t forget 40th was based on 996, the ugly duckling & least desirable of all 7 generations of Porsche and introduced to the market at the end of that model lifespan while the 50th is based on 991 which is widely perceived as the most beautiful (some say on par with the classic 911’s) and also at the beginning of the model lifecycle.
It is also only the second European retro look car that has ever been mass produced – first being BMW Z8 which was a nod to the classic 507 – 5703 were built of which 2543 were sent across the pond to US, (I omitted US muscle cars as I don’t know much about these new reincarnated models or if there is anything retro about them). In case you haven’t noticed retro is very popular in the motor industry, there are quite a few motorcycle manufacturers that are doing very good business on the retro café-racer look (Triumph, Motto Guzzi as well as the Japanese etc), but we have not seen any cars jumping on that boat as there are not many that were around 50 years ago (in 60’s). Have a good look around at custom specialists doing retro bikes and cars (such as Singer) & the prices they charge!
So it should not be a surprise that while Porsche started deliveries very late in 2013, already in May all cars were sold-out meaning that you could not order & spec a new car, just what dealers have in their stock - all these were sold with little or no discount which certainly was not the case for the 40th or the 991. So 911-50 not selling well is a total myth – I tried to buy a new one in May and Porsche GB said there is none left and all is sold-out and no dealer stocks either!
I haven’t really kept an eye on the world-wide used prices but here in UK every used car listed has been at same level or over list prices and sold pretty quick. In actual fact the last two used cars in England were listed for 3-5% above list price and both sold within 48 hours (last weekend) so doubt any discounts were given on those prices. This is still early days and there is some confusion and mis-information out there so if you can grab a deal then go for it and in actual fact some have taken advantage and managed to get good deals - have heard 7% discount on new 50th from a US rennlister & another member in UK reported 12% below new list price for a used sub 2000 miles 50th, but these seem to be exceptions rather than norm and you have to factor in the options.
Attachment 851205
People compare 50th to 40th which really is not like for like – yes they do share a commonality in that 1963 of each were made and both are anniversary models but what sets them apart?
Porsche 911 sales were lower 10 years ago and there was no new world market out there – Combined sales in China, SE Asia, Middle East, eastern Europe, south America, Africa accounted for less than 4% of 911 sales in 2004. However in 2014 these new markets are estimated to account for close to a quarter of worldwide sales of 911. So this time there is actually less anniversary model cars (out of the 1963 cars) fed to the historical western markets (by some 300-400 cars) while the size of market has grown by well over 10% - net ratio is that Porsche only fed 2/3 of the numbers of 40th to the same markets and as we know price is dictated by supply & demand so supply is down and demand is up!
Don’t forget 40th was based on 996, the ugly duckling & least desirable of all 7 generations of Porsche and introduced to the market at the end of that model lifespan while the 50th is based on 991 which is widely perceived as the most beautiful (some say on par with the classic 911’s) and also at the beginning of the model lifecycle.
It is also only the second European retro look car that has ever been mass produced – first being BMW Z8 which was a nod to the classic 507 – 5703 were built of which 2543 were sent across the pond to US, (I omitted US muscle cars as I don’t know much about these new reincarnated models or if there is anything retro about them). In case you haven’t noticed retro is very popular in the motor industry, there are quite a few motorcycle manufacturers that are doing very good business on the retro café-racer look (Triumph, Motto Guzzi as well as the Japanese etc), but we have not seen any cars jumping on that boat as there are not many that were around 50 years ago (in 60’s). Have a good look around at custom specialists doing retro bikes and cars (such as Singer) & the prices they charge!
So it should not be a surprise that while Porsche started deliveries very late in 2013, already in May all cars were sold-out meaning that you could not order & spec a new car, just what dealers have in their stock - all these were sold with little or no discount which certainly was not the case for the 40th or the 991. So 911-50 not selling well is a total myth – I tried to buy a new one in May and Porsche GB said there is none left and all is sold-out and no dealer stocks either!
I haven’t really kept an eye on the world-wide used prices but here in UK every used car listed has been at same level or over list prices and sold pretty quick. In actual fact the last two used cars in England were listed for 3-5% above list price and both sold within 48 hours (last weekend) so doubt any discounts were given on those prices. This is still early days and there is some confusion and mis-information out there so if you can grab a deal then go for it and in actual fact some have taken advantage and managed to get good deals - have heard 7% discount on new 50th from a US rennlister & another member in UK reported 12% below new list price for a used sub 2000 miles 50th, but these seem to be exceptions rather than norm and you have to factor in the options.
Attachment 851205
With that in mind I walked past Porsche Mayfair (central London) yesterday and surprised to see they have a second hand graphite grey PDK one for sale - looked stunning in the showroom! Offered for GBP105,000 with 3,629 miles. I spent a few minutes on the configuration to price that car 'on the road' and it comes to GBP101,225 - so almost certainly a premium to list. Bar my own it's the first one I've ever seen in London and will be interesting to see what it sells for and how long it takes. When it sells I'll post the details...
07-15-2014, 05:12 PM
#104
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
That car only came up for sale a couple of days ago, I have it on file but I didn't know the price or the edition number so will appretiate the info. They had another car a couple of months ago, a used high option geyser for £113k which was 5k over list. Another couple of used cars came up for sale a couple of weeks ago, one at Romans and the other at a PC £108 & £104k both sold withing a couple of days (around 5-6k over) of release so imagine for asking price. So yes they seem to be holding well in UK. I quite enjoyed this post by Eduardo on 50th. https://rennlist.com/forums/991/7085...nd-you-33.html
07-15-2014, 09:50 PM
#105
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Just checked my record and I do have the edition number of that one, 1536 - However there is another used one up for sale in OPC Colchester and that's the one with missing LE number.