aml161

Actually, I rescind my previous admission.

THPorsche, you are exactly touching upon something I tried to subtly suggest.

It's a given that models higher up the range are more capable. The extent of this capability is relatively limited, but it is indeed there. But when I see posts by people debating whether they should buy the S or not, I think the question isn't "which one is in fact better" rather "which one should I buy".

The "buy it if you can afford it" argument is pretty weak, honestly, for many reasons. But importantly, it creates a culture of upgrade-itis within the community and chops down conversations around improving as drivers, getting cars that you feel good about regardless of cost, enjoying the people in the community, and whatever else happens when you have enthusiasts come together. You know, getting stuff that you really enjoy and want as opposed to buying things because you risk regretting not getting "better" later...or admitting to someone that you didn't get the "best".

I met a Porsche "enthusiast" going on about his car to an attendant last year at a gas station. That day, I was driving a Boxster because I traded my 997.2 C4S with a buddy for giggles. I commented that his 997.1S cab was really good looking and his response was, "Yeah, thanks, it's faster than yours. And nice try faking an "S"." (His car was a modified base that had aftermarket Brembos.)

If the general culture of "S" was a little less pretentious and ridiculous, and it didn't attract people who need to justify their decisions through what other people think of their trivial things, the conversation could have been a lot less distasteful... a couple of guys enjoying their cars instead of holding onto some nonsense hierarchy of awesomeness.

Anyway, that's my extended rant. To the OP's original question of value, again my perspective is - having owned both S and base cars several times over - is that in the long term, dollar for dollar, you might appreciate extended driver education more than the differences in the machinery. This isn't born out of insecurity, confirmation bias, or whatever. The thing you are doing in the car is driving. The better you drive, the faster you'll be. The point of the S is to help you go a little faster, but if you can't keep up with the machinery, it does you no good.

Hammer911

"better?" Consider the concept of "fitness for a particular purpose."

Team Plutonium

This thread went full retard, but then again, this is what we do here. Carry on.

Hammer911

Maybe we should start doing audits to figure out where each one goes wrong...that would lead to some even better (read: unresolvable, endless) debates! Think I'll go re-read the thread about which way the crested wheel caps should point.

Chiboy

A few ideas:

1) Get the best every time if money is absolutely no object. If you seek value for money, buy what makes you happy while seeking a good mix of incremental cost and benefit. If something is marginally better and costs 5x as much (to make the point), it may not be the best use of your limited resources.

2) But what makes you happy. If you can afford an S and it makes you a lot happier than a base car, feel free! If you can afford an S and it doesn't do anything more for you than a base car, maybe the base car is for you.

3) If you find that people you know ask you things like, "Is this only a base car and not an S or Turbo?" you probably should find other people to hang out with.

4) If you take these Rennlist conversations too seriously, you should probably reexamine your priorities.

reidry

All the car forums seem to have a problem with this concept. Each person / family has specific needs or wants in their daily transportation and perhaps for their "fun" cars. A large number of responses to "which is best" are written with too much personal opinion and not enough insight into the member asking the question.

Not only do we often not understand what attributes a forum member is looking for in their next car, we also don't understand the peripheral priorities .. initial cost, maintenance costs, depreciation, etc.

I normally skip the threads where poster gives a one line "Which is better X or Y?" simply because there isn't enough information to have an informed discussion. Perhaps we should have a sticky with guidelines on how to post a "Recommend a model for me thread"?

Ryan

mtbscott

Pot calling kettle black....
You clearly imply that us 'po folks who have a non-S are clearly are lesser than.

socalsteve

Nail on head...

Buy what makes YOU happy, what you can afford and for the purpose intended.

Good luck! Its definitely a "first world" problem and one that you are very lucky to have...Enjoy it!!!

socalsteve

Seems like you are missing out on one piece of this equation...

"better"....If one drives all day long in traffic, then the S is no better than a base model, yes?

I believe the part that really needs to be examined is what is the intended purpose of said car...Then you can find the "better" one for this purpose.

Ray S

I think there is a ton of truth in this statement..... v v v v

Then again there is a ton of truth in this statement..... v v v v

In my opinion the folks at Porsche are absolute brilliant marketers. They can squeeze an extra buck out of a customer almost as well as Walt Disney can at his theme parks.

Consider;

- These are the same folks that charge an upcharge for a non-convertable Boxster that almost certainly costs them less to manufacture.
- The same folks who charge a big upcharge to have a wart on the dash that does little more than slghtly modify engine and transmission mapping (I'm guilty of buying in as this was a "must have" for me on my recently aquired 997.1 Turbo).
- The same folks that offer as "options" tons of things that come as standard equipment on much less expensive cars.

Everyone who has ever purchase one of these cars new is most likely guilty of succumbing to some of this marketing influence (myself most certainly included). No one needs an "S" (heck, no one even needs a 911). But the desire for just a little more and a little better pulls at each of us and often we bite. Well done Porsche!

The upgrades Porsche adds to these cars are meaningful in my opinion but we pay through the teeth for them. I'd bet the $15K upcharge Porsche charges for a 991 to a 991S costs them about $2k (+/- $1K) to build into the cars.

Just my opinion, ymmv......

Galion

IMO in congested cities with stop and go traffic is where the "S" really shines, more torque down low is what makes the drive more enjoyable, none is a torque monster, both need to be revved to fully appreciate their full potential, but the "S" feels a bit faster when your are not driving like an idiot arround town.
I had both, and on the track, they were very fast, scary fast, I couldnt feel a difference.

Lawsofpower

Maybe something's wrong with my base because 1-3rd is very torquey but, I can drive my *** off. Lol Very seldom will one exceed 3rd in true city driving or really need to for that matter. At least in NYC.

Weim911

I just ordered a 2015 C4S with an August 1st delivery. I will say that the best piece of advice came from my partner.... "This is not a rational car... its totally irrational in every way so why are you trying to make your options list and type of 991 rational?" I agree completely with him. Get what you want and what makes you happy. My only MUST was the all wheel drive. The rest was all really what I wanted. Not rational. Just what would make me happy. I will never track the car but I got the PDCC and SPASM. I will never need the 0-60 time and I will never need the top speed. So I could have easily gotten the non-S. But I liked the pull the S had and the engine noise, compared to the non-S. I think that both cars are fun. Buy the version you love and makes you happy... we both had a huge grin on our faces when we drove the 991S and thats what made me buy the S version.

Naples911

I think Porsche should make twin turbos standard in the base then this debate would be moot

drmatara

It's a personal choice...I just ordered my 2015 C2 Cab. Previously I owned a 997 C2S with 355HP and driving the C2 991 with 350HP but lighter car compare to the 997 C2S...I saw no difference in performance...for me living in SCAL convertible is more important than the S or .4 sec faster