991 issues update and lemon law filling new video
04-17-2014, 12:47 AM
#136
Thinking outside da' bun...
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Given the myriad of dramatic and consternating vehicle safety issues that I have seen in his videos, Porsche should have been paying Nick to drive this car while risking life and limb as mirrors fold down to make lane changes unsafe or practically impossible, gauge clusters completely short out, smoke fills the cabin, backup sensors sense too much or too little, pools of water fill the floorboards, distracting whistles of wind override his concentration, and the coup de grace -- the entire car simply pukes all over itself and shuts off in the middle of 4-lane traffic during rush hour on the Interstate -- in a pouring rainstorm. Porsche should be thankful for one thing and one thing only -- that Nick is still alive. This car could have easily killed him. We already know you replaced the horn -- Nick's last line of personal defense. Even that apparently went **** up.
To even suggest Nick owes Porsche a credit-back for seat time in this rolling death trap is like saying I owe Rolex 2/86,400ths credit-back because my broken watch tells the correct time -- down to the second -- twice a day.
To even suggest Nick owes Porsche a credit-back for seat time in this rolling death trap is like saying I owe Rolex 2/86,400ths credit-back because my broken watch tells the correct time -- down to the second -- twice a day.
04-17-2014, 12:49 AM
#137
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My sympathies to Nick.
But no one here (aside from Nick and perhaps PCNA) really knows all the facts or details of the situation.
All of that said, while jurisdictions vary somewhat, most Lemon Law statues are strikingly similar and at least in my jurisdiction the Lemon Law allows a manufacturer in a buy back situation to reduce the purchase price by taking into account mileage and condition of the vehicle.
Nick is not entitled to a full refund, or even necessarily 90% of his purchase price. Even in arbitration, the arbitrator will most likely split the difference between what Nick is demanding and what PCNA offers.
And I am pretty sure that if it does proceed to a Lemon Law arbitration hearing, whatever PCNA is offering to Nick now will not be what it formally submits in arbitration.
And Nick, if you decide to pursue litigation (ie, something other than Lemon Law arbitration) I would suggest you stop posting and avoid social media on this issue. During litigation it all becomes discoverable and can make life difficult for your lawyer and awkward for you.
Just my 0.02.
Best of luck to you Nick. Hope things get resolved quickly and to your satisfaction soon.
But no one here (aside from Nick and perhaps PCNA) really knows all the facts or details of the situation.
All of that said, while jurisdictions vary somewhat, most Lemon Law statues are strikingly similar and at least in my jurisdiction the Lemon Law allows a manufacturer in a buy back situation to reduce the purchase price by taking into account mileage and condition of the vehicle.
Nick is not entitled to a full refund, or even necessarily 90% of his purchase price. Even in arbitration, the arbitrator will most likely split the difference between what Nick is demanding and what PCNA offers.
And I am pretty sure that if it does proceed to a Lemon Law arbitration hearing, whatever PCNA is offering to Nick now will not be what it formally submits in arbitration.
And Nick, if you decide to pursue litigation (ie, something other than Lemon Law arbitration) I would suggest you stop posting and avoid social media on this issue. During litigation it all becomes discoverable and can make life difficult for your lawyer and awkward for you.
Just my 0.02.
Best of luck to you Nick. Hope things get resolved quickly and to your satisfaction soon.
04-17-2014, 12:50 AM
#138
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There are two sides to every story. I'm a little dismayed that many have been so quick to denounce Porsche, a brand that has built an enviable reputation based on years of customer satisfaction. One guy with a camera isn't going to change that for me. I'll trust my experience, thank you very much.
Lemon laws are sufficient to render a fair judgement to both sides. This case belongs in arbitration proceedings, not the internet, where only one side is presented. And while you're cheering this mudfest, consider that some of it might stick to the resale value of your second largest purchase.
Lemon laws are sufficient to render a fair judgement to both sides. This case belongs in arbitration proceedings, not the internet, where only one side is presented. And while you're cheering this mudfest, consider that some of it might stick to the resale value of your second largest purchase.
04-17-2014, 12:55 AM
#139
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Not sure if this has been posted yet, found it on 6 speed.Quote:
"I emailed Jason Nelson, their manager of customer commitment. Here's his response. None of us (besides Nick and Jason) know both sides of this story.
Mr. Gois,
Thank you very much for sharing your concern. Since I cannot divulge the details of a confidential offer between ourselves and another customer I can only tell you that we believe we have gone above and beyond to provide Mr. Murray with what is fair, much more than what the law provides in his situation. He has asked for additional concessions which I felt were unreasonable and could not oblige.
Please understand that you are dealing with only one side of a story and I assure you Mr. Murray has left out a number of important details in his video. We take our commitment to our customers very seriously and we deal with every one of them in a fair and equitable manner. We step up to our responsibility when it is required of us and have done no different in this case.
Thank you again for reaching out to me directly. We stand at your service should you require any assistance with your Porsche vehicles.
Jason Nelson
Manager, Customer Commitment
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
980 Hammond Dr, Suite 1000
Atlanta, GA 30328
phone: 770 290 3446
fax: 770 290 3583
email: jason.nelson@porsche.us"
"I emailed Jason Nelson, their manager of customer commitment. Here's his response. None of us (besides Nick and Jason) know both sides of this story.
Mr. Gois,
Thank you very much for sharing your concern. Since I cannot divulge the details of a confidential offer between ourselves and another customer I can only tell you that we believe we have gone above and beyond to provide Mr. Murray with what is fair, much more than what the law provides in his situation. He has asked for additional concessions which I felt were unreasonable and could not oblige.
Please understand that you are dealing with only one side of a story and I assure you Mr. Murray has left out a number of important details in his video. We take our commitment to our customers very seriously and we deal with every one of them in a fair and equitable manner. We step up to our responsibility when it is required of us and have done no different in this case.
Thank you again for reaching out to me directly. We stand at your service should you require any assistance with your Porsche vehicles.
Jason Nelson
Manager, Customer Commitment
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
980 Hammond Dr, Suite 1000
Atlanta, GA 30328
phone: 770 290 3446
fax: 770 290 3583
email: jason.nelson@porsche.us"
What I don't like about this response is this statement "I can only tell you that we believe we have gone above and beyond to provide Mr. Murray with what is fair, much more than what the law provides in his situation. He has asked for additional concessions which I felt were unreasonable and could not oblige."
What this guy is saying is they searched to see what they were liable to do by law first and decided to exceed it slightly to make amends.
When if they were truly standing behind their product they would have just said bring the thing back and let us give you a new one.
04-17-2014, 01:02 AM
#140
Race Director
The legal justification for a partial refund is sound.
The plaintiff can have a economist compute an amount for other items such as time , missed work, fuel, etc spent on rectifying the situation.
nick , figure out how many miles the dealer added on test drives.
The plaintiff can have a economist compute an amount for other items such as time , missed work, fuel, etc spent on rectifying the situation.
nick , figure out how many miles the dealer added on test drives.
04-17-2014, 01:02 AM
#141
What I don't like about this response is this statement "I can only tell you that we believe we have gone above and beyond to provide Mr. Murray with what is fair, much more than what the law provides in his situation. He has asked for additional concessions which I felt were unreasonable and could not oblige."
What this guy is saying is they searched to see what they were liable to do by law first and decided to exceed it slightly to make amends.
When if they were truly standing behind their product they would have just said bring the thing back and let us give you a new one.
What this guy is saying is they searched to see what they were liable to do by law first and decided to exceed it slightly to make amends.
When if they were truly standing behind their product they would have just said bring the thing back and let us give you a new one.
04-17-2014, 01:36 AM
#143
Burning Brakes
There are two sides to every story. I'm a little dismayed that many have been so quick to denounce Porsche, a brand that has built an enviable reputation based on years of customer satisfaction. One guy with a camera isn't going to change that for me. I'll trust my experience, thank you very much.
04-17-2014, 01:52 AM
#145
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In this case it seems surprising that the dealer is not kicking in some $$$ to resolve this.
Based on the service history Porsche can hold them responsible if they don't follow all the guidelines. Which usually means getting the factory involved very early in the process.
Really how much could Porsche and the dealer lose by buying the car back, fixing it and then selling it at auction?
Based on the service history Porsche can hold them responsible if they don't follow all the guidelines. Which usually means getting the factory involved very early in the process.
Really how much could Porsche and the dealer lose by buying the car back, fixing it and then selling it at auction?
04-17-2014, 03:08 AM
#146
Rennlist Member
At that point the only responsible thing to do would be to buy it back from him, at any price up to and including full retail.
Any other action was negligent on the dealer's part, and downright reckless on PCNA's.
Next time it might be your car, or mine. Hold their feet to the fire, and give 'em hell!
04-17-2014, 03:10 AM
#147
I have a 997.1 C2S which I have had from new. It has the upgraded bearing and has had near bulletproof reliability and build quality. I have been trying to force myself to upgrade to a 991. Reading stories like this, it always makes me wonder if once you get a really good car, you are foolish to take a chance on letting it go and having something like this happen to you. I think I am going to keep my car and buy a new F type R coupe with the difference!
Jim
Jim
04-17-2014, 03:15 AM
#148
Rennlist Member
Nick - I've been following this story with interest. PCNA's policies have been crafted to deal with the kind of little niggles that obsessive owners complain about and I'm sure that they get all sorts of unreasonable demands for vehicle replacement for rattles, squeaks. Clearly that is not the case here - and yet their policies result in you getting in the brown end of the stick for a genuine grievance.
I can understand why you are at the end of the proverbial tether. This video comes off as a bit of a rant - but it is effective and anyone at PCNA who is following this will see it as an embarrassment. Now, you may have awakened a sleeping giant and I would not be surprised to see you get a cease and desist, or for some deal to be worked out on condition that you remove the video as well as a gag order for you to not publicly complain about this any further.
Keep us posted - I truly hope that this works out for you. I'll be watching.
I can understand why you are at the end of the proverbial tether. This video comes off as a bit of a rant - but it is effective and anyone at PCNA who is following this will see it as an embarrassment. Now, you may have awakened a sleeping giant and I would not be surprised to see you get a cease and desist, or for some deal to be worked out on condition that you remove the video as well as a gag order for you to not publicly complain about this any further.
Keep us posted - I truly hope that this works out for you. I'll be watching.
04-17-2014, 06:43 AM
#149
Race Car
The offer on the table is money back minus a percentage for the miles I have covered. How much they take off is really what I am pressing them on.
Maybe that is unreasonable, but all things considered I think not. I have no idea what I would get if I take it to litigation but I think I will find out next week.
Maybe that is unreasonable, but all things considered I think not. I have no idea what I would get if I take it to litigation but I think I will find out next week.
04-17-2014, 08:22 AM
#150
Rennlist Member
There are two sides to every story. I'm a little dismayed that many have been so quick to denounce Porsche, a brand that has built an enviable reputation based on years of customer satisfaction. One guy with a camera isn't going to change that for me. I'll trust my experience, thank you very much.
Lemon laws are sufficient to render a fair judgement to both sides. This case belongs in arbitration proceedings, not the internet, where only one side is presented. And while you're cheering this mudfest, consider that some of it might stick to the resale value of your second largest purchase.
Lemon laws are sufficient to render a fair judgement to both sides. This case belongs in arbitration proceedings, not the internet, where only one side is presented. And while you're cheering this mudfest, consider that some of it might stick to the resale value of your second largest purchase.
Last edited by Ceepe; 04-17-2014 at 08:47 AM.