FullThrottle64

This.

Even if you prefer a manual (and I do in street cars), it is irrational to suggest that PDK is just another automatic.

rglbegl

Are you telling me that you have never heard of a clutch pedal?
How sad for Subaru boy. Have you never seen one? Have you forgotten what they look like? What happened to you?


And if everyone here wants the newest technology, and to spend less time shifting. . .. . . get a CVT.
CVT is by far superior to anything according to the logic in this thread. Always in gear, no shifting, and the engine immediately jumps to its maximum output and stays there the whole time while under acceleration.

chuck911

I can't speak to the logic of the thread, but the logic of transmissions is that the transmission must first of all provide intimate driver control of power delivery to the driving wheels. Intimate control is key, as precise control is essential in controlling weight balance, which in turn is essential in controlling traction and handling. Therefore that transmission is best which gives the driver the best control of power delivery. It is not as some keep repeating all about speed. Speed alone is really only important in straight line acceleration. As soon as braking and cornering enter in then precise control becomes job one.

Precise control means both on and off throttle. Hydraulic transmissions perform miserably here because they fail to allow precise throttle steer. Manual transmissions perform admirably while in gear, but when shifting performance is all over the map ranging depending largely on driver skill. With even the most highly skilled driver however there remains the problem of losing control of power during shifting. There simply is no way of avoiding the problem of a lapse in power on upshifts (or engine braking on downshifts) interfering with car balance.

CVT eliminates the power interruption. But unless there's something new going on it fails just as miserably as a hydraulic automatic when it comes to providing the driver with complete control of on and off throttle power to the wheels.

PDK of course passes all these tests amazingly well, providing exactly the same precise control of a manual while virtually eliminating any interruption in that control due to shifting gears. It is not speed per se that makes it superior, but speed combined with smooth, uninterrupted control.

chuckbdc

Or by the logic of your statement, find a car with the most spindly lever with which to hunt for each gear, so you can enjoy the noise of steel gears exploring each others teeth, large gaps in torque and relaxing runs up the tach. Of course if you are really serious it will have to be made in England, preferably with a windshield that folds and a frame that handles the springing. Also get a kidney belt.

bccars

Exactly ! Well said !
We still got a lot of educating and converting to do brother chuck, amen ;-)

rglbegl

"The brakes are not for stopping the car, the brakes are for setting the suspension" - Mario

True, the engine braking and control of the power is important.
But what happens if I need zero engine braking, and just need to let the cars momentum carry it without any interference from the engine or tranny?
Can the PDK help me in that situation?

If you have that much trouble driving a manual, you are the exact kind of person the automatic transmissions were made for.

chuckbdc

I don't even recall heal and toeing during the time I spent on the track in over 20 years of DE and SCCA racing. After the first driver's school it became second nature, like being smooth on the accelerator and trail braking. But if it is a major accomplishment to you, congratulations, enjoy every one you get right.

FullThrottle64

Under what conditions is this ever needed? You control the weight balance by torque loading/unloading with the right foot, not with the clutch. If you can't get to zero torque input with the throttle, you're a candidate for a slushbox automatic.

FWIW, with racing transmissions, you never use the clutch once you start rolling and/or leave your pit box. The clutch pedal is only there to get you going from a standing start and/or to get you into reverse. It is assumed that if you are competent to drive a "real" race car that you can torque-match well enough not to need a clutch pedal/lever. If you can't match torque, you will run up really big dogring and gearset replacement bills, and you won't finish many races.

bccars

I sometimes get a sneaky suspicion the Pdk haters, mt diehards, are the ones that are still learning to master the mt and think heel toe is some form of black art that proves masculinity.

Most proficient mt drivers, whose heel toe is a natural thing, look for the next level of performance, involvement and control and find that with Pdk.

doubleurx

Why is it, that you feel the need to reset to a comeback to anything I state with calling me "subaru Boy"?

Yes I know what a clutch pedal is. Clearly you don't. Maybe if you read my post, you'd see that I do love manual transmissions- I have three cars with them. I'm just not a narrow minded individual, unwilling to embrace new technology.

Seriously though why can't the discussion happen without name calling? If you are incapable of that, please move on.

doubleurx

No kidding! I've said the same thing. Heal toe, heck heal to double clutching is not some hidden skill reserved for the manual elite. If anyone thinks, that, odds are they don't know how.

chuck911

For sure some are like that. Their comments give them away. But there are also quite a few who take true comfort, maybe even pleasure, in performing habitual rituals deeply ingrained from long years of use. Which is fine. I mean why else do we drive these things if not for pleasure? Pleasure sometimes gets conflated with involvement, control, etc. which is unfortunate, because just as you say there is a higher level of involvement and control, and yes ultimately pleasure, and for now at least PDK is the latest step in that direction.

rglbegl

Funny you say that. I never mentioned H-T, where did you come up with that idea?????
That does not answer my question.
Try again
Correct me if I am wrong, but that is your name, right? Not exactly 'name calling' if it is what you named yourself.

And move on . .. .. .. no.
I love playing the devils advocate. Watching everyone get their panties in a bunch is funny to me.
There is something satisfying about watching people spend their money on something they are unsure of, then saying whatever it takes to justify their purchase. (Half the people in here are just regurgitating what the salesmen told them.)

doubleurx

Fair enough, again I'm thick skinned. If you are not trying to be condescending then I'm good Royal Dog.

rglbegl