No More Manual Gear Box for The 911?
11-02-2013, 02:38 PM
#152
1) 100 ms is absolutely perceptible if you're driving at the limit. If not, you're not really at the limit.
2) You're confusing the shift itself with the lag between paddle actuation and shift. I'm not talking about the actual shift timing.
2) You're confusing the shift itself with the lag between paddle actuation and shift. I'm not talking about the actual shift timing.
11-02-2013, 02:43 PM
#153
Rennlist Member
1) 100 ms is absolutely perceptible if you're driving at the limit. If not, you're not really at the limit.
2) You're confusing the shift itself with the lag between paddle actuation and shift. I'm not talking about the actual shift timing.
2) You're confusing the shift itself with the lag between paddle actuation and shift. I'm not talking about the actual shift timing.
2). Can't argue this one. I just don't recall it. Hopefully it is not noticeable on the Gt3!
11-02-2013, 03:17 PM
#154
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How am I supposed to come in on a corner real hot with one foot on the clutch, the other on the brake and gas , revving real loud, making the car in front of me think I am going to hit him, causing him to fly off the course in to the dirt so I can pass him . . . . . . . How Can I do that without a clutch?
11-02-2013, 03:36 PM
#155
Enjoying rowing through the gears is as legitimate a reason for getting a 7MT as is wanting to go fast(er) and focus on whatever is for buying a PDK.
When the overwhelming need or desire for an automatic (PDK is a great one) overtakes me, I'm buying an Audi RS-7, not a 991.
I suspect these threads go on and on because we're all trying to rationalize our choices to ourselves, and seeking some non-existent absolution. Rock on.....
When the overwhelming need or desire for an automatic (PDK is a great one) overtakes me, I'm buying an Audi RS-7, not a 991.
I suspect these threads go on and on because we're all trying to rationalize our choices to ourselves, and seeking some non-existent absolution. Rock on.....
11-02-2013, 03:41 PM
#156
How am I supposed to come in on a corner real hot with one foot on the clutch, the other on the brake and gas , revving real loud, making the car in front of me think I am going to hit him, causing him to fly off the course in to the dirt so I can pass him . . . . . . . How Can I do that without a clutch?
11-02-2013, 04:01 PM
#157
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You're not supposed to buy a PDK. You are supposed to buy a C2S with powerkit and 7MT and do just this. I like people like you. You keep the volume of the tire manufacturers and brake pad manufacturers high enough for these low volume cars to where I can actually afford the replacements.
Looking out for my fellow drivers
11-02-2013, 04:42 PM
#158
That said, this thread is just bizarre, as are most involving a MT vs PDK discussion. I think all MT lovers get that 'PDK is the future', only it's not. A gearless, silent electric car that overrides many (or all) of your sub-par inputs in steering, speeding, and general fuel consumption is the future.
I really don't want to hear any whining (other than low volume electric motor hum) from all of the technology lovers here when that happens because they need to get out of the 1900's and into the 21st century already. None of this 'but I liked choosing a gear with my flappy paddles' and 'my motor with PSE sounded so much better' crap, not unless you want to be reminded about manual windows and hand-cranks (though the relevance of those escapes me).
11-02-2013, 05:02 PM
#159
That said, this thread is just bizarre, as are most involving a MT vs PDK discussion. I think all MT lovers get that 'PDK is the future', only it's not. A gearless, silent electric car that overrides many (or all) of your sub-par inputs in steering, speeding, and general fuel consumption is the future.
I really don't want to hear any whining (other than low volume electric motor hum) from all of the technology lovers here when that happens because they need to get out of the 1900's and into the 21st century already. None of this 'but I liked choosing a gear with my flappy paddles' and 'my motor with PSE sounded so much better' crap, not unless you want to be reminded about manual windows and hand-cranks (though the relevance of those escapes me).
I really don't want to hear any whining (other than low volume electric motor hum) from all of the technology lovers here when that happens because they need to get out of the 1900's and into the 21st century already. None of this 'but I liked choosing a gear with my flappy paddles' and 'my motor with PSE sounded so much better' crap, not unless you want to be reminded about manual windows and hand-cranks (though the relevance of those escapes me).
11-02-2013, 05:49 PM
#160
Perhaps i wasn't clear in my post. Said a dfferent way; Given one already posseses the skill to drive today's technology at the level you describe, you would have to layer in additional skills/knowledge to drive the older technology at or near it's limit. Therefore it takes more skill. That's the point I was trying to make, and would stand by it.
But here's the thing: none of this has been eliminated. Sure, every single thing you care to name, today's cars have refined down to near perfection. "Near" perfection. The same challenges are there. Main difference being in the past the greater challenge was in the unpredictable nature of the car. Today that is much less and the demand is more in the requirement for absolute precision of inputs.
Brakes, for example, still fade, but insignificantly compared to in the past. But where long ago it was often easy to heat the brakes to where you couldn't lock them up no matter how hard you pushed (younger readers, yes, there was a time!) today's brakes will easily lock up no matter how hot they get. Or look at it another way- the brakes on say a 356A was equivalent to maybe 100 hp. The brakes on a 991? More like 800 bhp. I think everyone will agree it takes much more skill to master 800 hp than 100. Doing 9/10 then or now, its a lot different today but its never been easy.
11-02-2013, 09:40 PM
#161
[QUOTE=008;10868401]
Does anyone really believe Porsche will not offer a MT option at all, the next model revision? Does anyone believe a surprise MT GT3 (or Turbo) is eventually forthcoming? I must say that practically, as a newcomer to Porsche, one committed to a stick, I am having one hell of a time deciding to plunk down the $$$$ for a maxed out C4S given the potential answers to the above two questions.
I didn't stirr the pot. I just gave my comment to the OP on another stupid and pointless thread.
You should read what I write, instead of feeling attacked. I did say that I also love manuals. I also think it's a sad thing that it will eventially disappear, but there's nothing we can do about it. It's the way it is. I embrace the PDK and I have already adapted to it.
Maybe it's something you should do instead of whining the whole time about it. Makes life so much easier... for yourself.QUOTE]
Lol, really? You were the first to respond to the op saying:
"manual is ancient technology. Wake up... It's 2013, not 1963..."
If you didn't think that was going to be provocative, you must be new to the internet.
I'm glad you adapted to PDK and enjoy it. As I said I've owned various automated manuals and chose 7MT this time around. I'm certainly not whining about it and seriously doubt buying another automatic car will make my life
"so much easier", but thanks for the sage advice.
Will I own another PDK or the like in the future? Probably. But this thread is about the death of the manual in the 911 and a few of us on here bought a 991 with a 7MT because it might be our last chance. And it's a 7 speed stick! You have to admit that's cool. I had an 8 speed shifter cart once but it kept blowing up...
You should read what I write, instead of feeling attacked. I did say that I also love manuals. I also think it's a sad thing that it will eventially disappear, but there's nothing we can do about it. It's the way it is. I embrace the PDK and I have already adapted to it.
Maybe it's something you should do instead of whining the whole time about it. Makes life so much easier... for yourself.QUOTE]
Lol, really? You were the first to respond to the op saying:
"manual is ancient technology. Wake up... It's 2013, not 1963..."
If you didn't think that was going to be provocative, you must be new to the internet.
I'm glad you adapted to PDK and enjoy it. As I said I've owned various automated manuals and chose 7MT this time around. I'm certainly not whining about it and seriously doubt buying another automatic car will make my life
"so much easier", but thanks for the sage advice.
Will I own another PDK or the like in the future? Probably. But this thread is about the death of the manual in the 911 and a few of us on here bought a 991 with a 7MT because it might be our last chance. And it's a 7 speed stick! You have to admit that's cool. I had an 8 speed shifter cart once but it kept blowing up...
11-03-2013, 02:45 AM
#164
Rennlist Member
[QUOTE=smuoio;10876602]
Does anyone really believe Porsche will not offer a MT option at all, the next model revision? Does anyone believe a surprise MT GT3 (or Turbo) is eventually forthcoming? I must say that practically, as a newcomer to Porsche, one committed to a stick, I am having one hell of a time deciding to plunk down the $$$$ for a maxed out C4S given the potential answers to the above two questions.
Porsche would have to have rocks in their heads to equip a Turbo with a stick shift, and their customers would have to have rocks in their heads to order it that way. Not going to happen.
What's so "fun" and "involving" about spending a third of your 0-100 time with the power train disconnected?
Does anyone really believe Porsche will not offer a MT option at all, the next model revision? Does anyone believe a surprise MT GT3 (or Turbo) is eventually forthcoming? I must say that practically, as a newcomer to Porsche, one committed to a stick, I am having one hell of a time deciding to plunk down the $$$$ for a maxed out C4S given the potential answers to the above two questions.
What's so "fun" and "involving" about spending a third of your 0-100 time with the power train disconnected?
11-03-2013, 03:11 AM
#165
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^^
You drive a manual, you are a passenger behind the wheel in an automatic (but If you spend 1/3 of your time out of gear, you need an auto my friend)
You would have to have rocks in your head to want to drive a sports car with an auto tranny.
I guess it is in Porsche's best interest to cater to the newly rich ignoramus who doesn't even know how to use a clutch. They do have money, and they do buy cars . . . . .
$0.02
You drive a manual, you are a passenger behind the wheel in an automatic (but If you spend 1/3 of your time out of gear, you need an auto my friend)
You would have to have rocks in your head to want to drive a sports car with an auto tranny.
I guess it is in Porsche's best interest to cater to the newly rich ignoramus who doesn't even know how to use a clutch. They do have money, and they do buy cars . . . . .
$0.02
Last edited by rglbegl; 11-03-2013 at 03:34 AM.